South Africa vs British and Irish Lions - Test 2

[Ragey Erasmus]

I've never really understood how people can possibly assess leadership. Ever single game one team loses, it doesn't mean the captain of said team had no leadership. How does one measure this facet and why would good leadership mean your team just 'wins'? Personally I think leadership has a very minimal impact in the grand scheme of things.

Generally aspects of leadership include stepping up and preventing a team from losing their heads and taking control tactically. All that was absent. If fans of AWJ are going to use "unseen work" and "leadership" as intangible reasons to select him, you must also then accept the complete apparent absence of it. It can't be something that is wheeled out when it is very obvious it is happening but then dismissed as "ah how can you see it?" when evidence of it is not there. That lions side looked devoid of leadership and AWJs personal performances are not up to scratch. Either the unseen work becomes more seen or essentially he is in the side for his name and not on any actual merit that can be observed.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I know slo mo can be misleading but the video on this guy's Twitter of Itoje doesn't look clever at all. Doesn't show what led up to it but I'd expect Itoje to be up before the beak.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Doesn't look good. If he gets banned for that then Hendo to come straight in as replacement.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Doesn't look good. If he gets banned for that then Hendo to come straight in as replacement.

Reckon we'd be more likely to see Beirne come in either straight to lock or at 6 with Lawes at lock. Much more of a like for like Itoje replacement than Hendo.

Although I would go with Hendo.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Lions’ Kyle Sinckler cited for alleged bite on South Africa’s Franco Mostert

British & Irish Lions prop Kyle Sinckler has been cited for an alleged bite on Franco Mostert during the defeat by South Africa on Saturday

www.theguardian.com

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I've never really understood how people can possibly assess leadership.

It´s more of an art than a science but you can spot a few things. First and foremost, a sign of leadership is people listening to that person. They can sense things, like what the team needs at a particular moment and how to transmit that message so that it resonates with the team. Sometimes you need the team to cool down and a few words at the right time can make the difference. Sometimes you need grit and the right phrase can have a huge impact.
Skill helps as performance can be inspirational, but it is not necessary.

And leadership is not the same as being right. It is rare as leadership is largely based on credibility so being right does help, a lot, but you could potentially be a natural leader who makes a few wrong calls, at least in the short run.

It's hard to describe but you can spot it a mile away.
Farrell and Sexton come to mind (to name two non-arg ones). To be completely honest, AWJ does not.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Reckon we'd be more likely to see Beirne come in either straight to lock or at 6 with Lawes at lock. Much more of a like for like Itoje replacement than Hendo.

Although I would go with Hendo.

It'll be Beard and you know it

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

It'll be Beard and you know it

Shhhh, if no one brings him up in any discussions maybe Gatland will forget he's on the tour.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I dont understand why people think itoje will get banned. First, there is nothing in it. Second, hes less touchable than farrell. Is there a precedent i dont know about?

 

[ncurd]

I dont understand why people think itoje will get banned. First, there is nothing in it. Second, hes less touchable than farrell. Is there a precedent i dont know about?

Has Itoje ever done anything warranting a citing in his international career? I can't think of any and I can think of multiple for Farrell.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Has Itoje ever done anything warranting a citing in his international career? I can't think of any and I can think of multiple for Farrell.

Not that i know of, i just would expect if farrell can get away with things because hes the golden boy, then surely the platinum boy can get away with more. I should have said "i would expect hed be less touchable than farrell"

 

[TRF_Olyy]

"Has he ever gotten away with a red card offence before?"

"No but imagine if he DID!"

 

[JohnKA]

I see Duane Vermeulen is joining the Bok camp this is huge

Vermeulen joins Springboks for final British and Irish Lions Test | Sport

Experienced No 8 Duane Vermeulen will join the Springbok team at their Cape Town base on Sunday after missing the opening two Tests against the British & Irish Lions due to an ankle injury.

www.news24.com

 

[General Melchett]

Matt Dawson column: British and Irish Lions crying out for creative player

Former Lion Matt Dawson says the tour is crying out for a player to create a moment that turns the tide.

www.bbc.co.uk

If the plan is to zip the ball out wide quickly and try more grubber kicks and dinks over the top then the backline should be 9. Price 10. Russell 11. Adams 12. Aki 13. Henshaw 14. LRZ 15. Williams

Gatland's backline will be 9. Murray 10. Biggar 11. Adams 12. Farrell 13. Henshaw 14. Williams 15. Hogg with Russell on the bench to come when it's too late to salvage anything.

Honestly the centres are a mess but at least Aki and Henshaw is safe combo and I doubt he'll play Daly or Harris at 13 again.

 

[Jimbo]

If the plan is to zip the ball out wide quickly and try more grubber kicks and dinks over the top then the backline should be 9. Price 10. Russell 11. Adams 12. Aki 13. Henshaw 14. LRZ 15. Williams

Gatland's backline will be 9. Murray 10. Biggar 11. Adams 12. Farrell 13. Henshaw 14. Williams 15. Hogg with Russell on the bench to come when it's too late to salvage anything.

Honestly the centres are a mess but at least Aki and Henshaw is safe combo and I doubt he'll play Daly or Harris at 13 again.

So let's get this straight, when you want to try and play some rugby you go with the safe and uninspiring combo of Henshaw and Aki, when you don't you play players which can actually put the balls through the hands, crazy logic.

 

[General Melchett]

So let's get this straight, when you want to try and play some rugby you go with the safe and uninspiring combo of Henshaw and Aki, when you don't you play players which can actually put the balls through the hands, crazy logic.

You do realise that defence still needs to be on point? No other combos have worked. Russell and Farrell didn't work because Farrell couldn't deal with a quick ball and was on a different wavelength. Daly and Harris haven't worked at 13. Aki and Henshaw have decent hands and can defend their channels. I did say in my last post that centres are a mess which you seem to have ignored - it's probably the least worst partnership. Russell can bypass them and chuck it or kick it straight to the back three if he wants.

 

[BPM]

To be honest, unless there's a complete change to the 'game plan', it's more or less irrelevant who plays in the centres.

Kicking has it's place and can be effective if it's got the right hang time and the chase is good. Unfortunately, the kicking wasn't great Hogg, Watson and van der Merwe were individually and collectively awful and barely won anything in the air. I genuinely don't understand how no-one on the pitch or on the coaching staff couldn't see it wasn't working

I could accept resorting to the kick chase if trying to move the SA defence had totally failed but to not even attempt anything other than aimless kicking is so disappointing.

One of the better line breaks the Lions made (a very low bar) actually came from Farrell delaying a pass and a player running on to the ball at pace (Sinckler?). It ultimately made no difference as the support wasn't able to effect a clear out and SA got the turnover. However, it did show that there are holes there to be exploited if there's even a little bit of guile (and Farrell is hardly a creative 10). I'd back Russell or Smith find gaps if they're given a bit of license.

 

[BenniMarco]

Welsh fan here. Been lurking a while.

Thoughts on yesterday in the guise of a 3rd test team:
1. Jones
2. George
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Beirne
6. Lawes
7. Curry
8. Conan
9. Price
10. Biggar
11. Adams
12. Farrell
13. Henshaw
14. Watson
15. Williams

16 LCD
17 Vunipola
18 Sinckler
19 Henderson
20 Watson
21 Davies
22 Daly
23 Hogg

That bench isnt very thought out though, can't get a balance and can't work out a better choice for 22 with general centre cover but the first 15 is better anyway. Will Russell make the bench? If we need some magic to win a game, he's great to have there, but to defend a game I'd be concerned. Will a fresher Watson make his way in at 7 too? I really don't want Daly in there but can't see a better choice?

Yes, also I'm Welsh and I dropped AWJ too. Love the man, and admire him and what he's done for Wales but he's not the best man to be in to win this test. Enough leaders in that team surely! I'd echo thoughts that James Ryan and Sexton should be there and would be in my 23.

 

[Jimbo]

You do realise that defence still needs to be on point? No other combos have worked. Russell and Farrell didn't work. Daly and Harris haven't worked at 13. Aki and Henshaw have decent hands and can defend their channels. Russell can bypass them and chuck it straight to the back three if he wants.

I agree other 13 options haven't worked, but I was explicitly talking about actually putting the ball through the hands, one can't really say it hasn't worked when it hasn't been attempted, I'd keep Henshaw in there be a little concerned for Aki not only do I not think his hands are great, I also think he is pretty likely to add to the list of carded players.

 

[MACCA]

Generally aspects of leadership include stepping up and preventing a team from losing their heads and taking control tactically. All that was absent. If fans of AWJ are going to use "unseen work" and "leadership" as intangible reasons to select him, you must also then accept the complete apparent absence of it. It can't be something that is wheeled out when it is very obvious it is happening but then dismissed as "ah how can you see it?" when evidence of it is not there. That lions side looked devoid of leadership and AWJs personal performances are not up to scratch. Either the unseen work becomes more seen or essentially he is in the side for his name and not on any actual merit that can be observed.

Couldn't agree more. AWJ is incredible but looks like a grandad against these guys. Think Henderson deserves a try. Unfortunately the same applies to TF, Ken Owens, Murray ,Biggar , Farrell and A. Watson. Would throw in VDM and Hogg too but can't really criticise anyone playing outside of 10 as they have been given no ball or bad slow ball. Not really seeing the point of an attack coach with the Lions Gatland style make E Jones entert