Sonny Bill Williams News + Progress in ITM Cup

[Sam Owen]

Indeed I have, but if your best All Blacks aren't playing in it (and we know they're not) why would the All Blacks play some 'stars of the top14' team, as you previously said? That wouldn't tell us anything about the strength of the two leagues. It'd be like the Lions playing to prove how strong the English Premiership is.

Powerhouse All Black back Rene Ranger has been playing ITM as well as Israel Dagg, I guess I understand why you thought that NO All Blacks have been playing ITM if you've never heard of these guys.

Stars of the Top 14 would end up playing for their country right?..well when the All Blacks come to play these guys that are stars in their respective Top 14 comp and their countries finest, I'll get to see them if I havent seen them already.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Powerhouses? Really? Neither of them would be in my AB's XV. Would you have Ranger over Smith or Nonu? Freun is probably playing better than him at the moment too.

As for Dagg, while he will start after the WC, at the moment I'd have Sivivatu, Mils and Cory Jane over him.


Not all of the best players in the Top 14 play for their countries by the way. Lots of guys like George Smith or Brock James don't play internationally anymore.

 

[Sam Owen]

Powerhouses? Really? Neither of them would be in my AB's XV. Would you have Ranger over Smith or Nonu? Freun is probably playing better than him at the moment too.

As for Dagg, while he will start after the WC, at the moment I'd have Sivivatu, Mils and Cory Jane over him.


Not all of the best players in the Top 14 play for their countries by the way. Lots of guys like George Smith or Brock James don't play internationally anymore.

Well maybe not Israel (more of a elusive runner) but Ranger, a powerhouse in my book. I thought the Heiniken cup was the highest comp up north it now seems there are two, thats pretty good.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Well maybe not Israel but Ranger, a powerhouse in my book. I thought the Heiniken cup was the highest comp up north it now seems there are two, thats pretty good.

Well the Heineken Cup is, but unlike in the SH teams comete in both their domestic league and the Continental competition. For example, Toulouse will play Top 14 and Heineken Cup while Leinster will play Magners League and Heineken Cup. The squads are the exact same for both competitions.

 

[ranger]

Powerhouses? Really? Neither of them would be in my AB's XV. Would you have Ranger over Smith or Nonu? Freun is probably playing better than him at the moment too.

As for Dagg, while he will start after the WC, at the moment I'd have Sivivatu, Mils and Cory Jane over him.


Not all of the best players in the Top 14 play for their countries by the way. Lots of guys like George Smith or Brock James don't play internationally anymore.

I think power house is more a reference to how he plays the game, watch these and see if thats an accurate description:



You obviously assumed from the tone of your post asking which All Blacks played this year that there weren't many.. there are only about 12 or so All Blacks who haven't graced the ITM yet and all of them will do very shortly, so your point is sort of invalid. Weather they would make your All Blacks XV is beside the point, half the players that will line up against Ireland in november wouldnt make your All Blacks XV either, but they are still the All Blacks and they will still put a good showing in..

Also, Brock James aye? theres a fine product of the ITM cup system.. he even played amature club rugby for Coastal in Taranaki..

 

[Charles]

All of this debate about the T14 and ITM cup is meh. The two comps are completely different, Ranger said it well. I'd just like to add that you can't play razzle-dazzle running rugby for 26 rounds, especially wen half of them are played in 30+ degrees heat. From a tactical point of view the T14 is vastly superior and so are the financial stakes. From a purely individual skill pov, the ITM is better. As for SBW, he's a good player but I don't think 12 is his best position...I'd have him at 13.

 

[Dizzy]

Put your best Top 14 squad up against the best ITM cup squad and we'll see what happens?

 

[durbutter]

Really? Loads and loads of seasoned NZ'ers, Bok's and a few Aussies, the best French, Italian, Argintine players and then some!

Vs, well, All of NZ, who produce most of the best players in the world. and Luke Rooney.Ahem....

Sounds like a tasty game actually

 

[gingergenius]

well since the ABs are the best team in the world by a mile, and they all play for ITM clubs, there's no question who would win that one.

that being said, they're not exactly playing itm cup rugby week in week out, whereas the only time the top 14 will be a bit short of its stars is the autumn & 6N periods.

 

[ranger]

Really? Loads and loads of seasoned NZ'ers, Bok's and a few Aussies, the best French, Italian, Argintine players and then some!

Vs, well, All of NZ, who produce most of the best players in the world. and Luke Rooney.Ahem....

Sounds like a tasty game actually

Hey hey the ITM didn't "produce" Luke Rooney... hes an australian that turned up after playing in the top 14, you cant blame his shitness on NZ haha.
If there is someone the ITM can take credit for it would be Brock James..

 

[woodward]

Woodward are you a 12-16 year old boy with SBW posters plastered all over your bedroom? Because thats the only possible reason i can find for you being so ridiculously defensive of him.

I will direct you to ginergenius's post which sums the situation up nicely IMO, and you tell me what part you disagree with

sure

in fairness, those highlights make sonny bill look pretty ******* awesome. offloading and rugby brain looks world class. Don't know what else he did in the game though, but add that to the try saver on Masaga and he's had a fair few key moments fora just 2 appearances.

Having said that, considering that Nonu and Smith are, at the moment, so far ahead of anyone else in the world in the centres, plus the likes of Stanley, Ranger, and Toeava are all capped ABs, plus the fact that Fruean looks absolutely amazing, SBW's gonna have to be ****-hot in the Super 15 just to get involved with the ABs next summer.

SBW is already above Stanley so theres the admission that he is well in contention for All Black selection. Ranger is not a 12 though if he were SBW would be above him anyway as his distribution is better so his competition for the back up second five spot is Toeava, one of my favourite players but someone who has to prove he's all there mentally at international level and McAlister who has apparently been ruined by his time up north and is currently below even Stanley. SBW is the kind of player these coaches love and potentially be a game breaking trump card, I can't think of anyone theres been thats like him. This is the reason I consider rubbishing him before he's had a chance to really come to grips with rugby in an environment where his skills will be utilized and developed. SBW has said as much that ITM cup is a step up, it's proving ground for All Blacks T14 is where they go to retire

 

[TRF_Olyy]

SBW is the kind of player these coaches love and potentially be a game breaking trump card, I can't think of anyone theres been thats like him.

You know this after 120minutes of ITM?

Talk about overrating a player!

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

You know this after 120minutes of ITM?

Talk about overrating a player!

Sonny Bill is an unknown quantity in the completely foreign (to him - for now) environment of New Zealand Rugby. His first 120 minutes have been a positive step in the right direction. He will need to continue stepping up throughout the rest of the ITM Cup and have an exemplary Super 15 to make the All Blacks next year. He has every chance and will no doubt become more of a known quantity towards the middle stages of the Super 15.

I think it's too early for a overly positive or negative view to have been formed as yet.

 

[woodward]

You know this after 120minutes of ITM?

Talk about overrating a player!

Yes I know that he's "potentially" a one of a kind superstar. New Zealand produces them from time to time you know

 

[nickdnz]

Yes I know that he's "potentially" a one of a kind superstar. New Zealand produces them from time to time you know

Shhhhh



That will be all.

 

[cyRil]

I like SBW, but I really hope he's a massive flop now, just because of woodward...

 

[jawmalawm24]

SBW is one of his harshest critics check this out: http://www.allblacks.com/news/14247/Sonny-Bill-Williams-is-his-harshest-critic
"You've gota be disappointed because if you're not than there's nothing to work on the next week" he reckons, gees that's a bit harsh isn't it.

 

[Feicarsinn]

SBW is one of his harshest critics check this out: http://www.allblacks.com/news/14247/Sonny-Bill-Williams-is-his-harshest-critic
"You've gota be disappointed because if you're not than there's nothing to work on the next week" he reckons, gees that's a bit harsh isn't it.

I'd judge it more as realistic. The guy knows he's gonna have to do a helluva lot to win over his public so statements like that are most likely designed to go down well. If he came out and said 'I was awesome the other day, wasn't I? Where's my Black jersey?' he'd get thorn apart.

 

[fcukernaut]

I'd judge it more as realistic. The guy knows he's gonna have to do a helluva lot to win over his public so statements like that are most likely designed to go down well. If he came out and said 'I was awesome the other day, wasn't I? Where's my Black jersey?' he'd get thorn apart.

He'd instantly become my favourite player if he did that

 

[Feicarsinn]

He'd instantly become my favourite player if he did that

Yeah, me too