Sonny Bill Williams confirmed to leave New Zealand

[Peat]

Great player and deservedly took the 12 shirt from Nonu and kept it.

It is a shame to see him leave but he is and has always been a dual coder. Almost indisputably the form 12 in world rugby right now and he's not shamed the black jersey on or off the field (re: nude, drunken brawls) so I don't see why people take such an issue with him.

It's hardly keeping it if you sod off after wearing it for a massive three games in a row, just before the biggest games of the year!

It's stuff like this which means I have an issue with him. I find his lack of commitment deeply disappointing. And I don't watch enough S15 to comment on domestic form, but I'd have rated Steyn higher based on the internationals.

Final point - If nude drunken brawls are shameful, every rugby team in the World ever should be permanently blushing. I know this is the modern age and all that, but I shall stick to my traditionalism on this score. It's no big thing.

 

[Gena_ZA]

He is just a rugby money whore, and a good whore at it
oh wait, he is actually a professional boxer, or a model, maybe even a gigalo

Hope Nonu gives him a late goodbye tackle this weekend

 

[Dizzy]

Great player and deservedly took the 12 shirt from Nonu and kept it.

It is a shame to see him leave but he is and has always been a dual coder. Almost indisputably the form 12 in world rugby right now and he's not shamed the black jersey on or off the field (re: nude, drunken brawls) so I don't see why people take such an issue with him.

This stands on the grounds of?... Because Nonu was rested throughout the Irish tests? Steve Hansen said he never intended to play Nonu because he didn't get an off season.

On his departure, I respect the man for keeping his word to whomever he gave it to. That shows just how much of a truly genuine person he really is.
I hope he does well in the NRL but I can hardly say he will be missed.

 

[Aedaphon]

This stands on the grounds of?... Because Nonu was rested throughout the Irish tests? Steve Hansen said he never intended to play Nonu because he didn't get an off season.

Watch the Blues v Chiefs game the week before the Ireland tests. On form there is no way that Nonu would have had that shirt- SBW really did dominate him one on one numerous times in that game.

But I take your point, Nonu was coming off the end of a long season- I still think he is a fantastic 12.

 

[cyRil]

Final point - If nude drunken brawls are shameful, every rugby team in the World ever should be permanently blushing. I know this is the modern age and all that, but I shall stick to my traditionalism on this score. It's no big thing.

I know what you mean, but the Guildford incident was shocking.

 

[big ginger 8]

A pity he could have been so much more.

 

[Rhyer]

Watch the Blues v Chiefs game the week before the Ireland tests. On form there is no way that Nonu would have had that shirt- SBW really did dominate him one on one numerous times in that game.

But I take your point, Nonu was coming off the end of a long season- I still think he is a fantastic 12.

You're forgetting rugby is a confidence game and when you're with a team top of the table things are going to go alright for you and alternatively when you're bottom of the table, moral is really low.

Did you see the Crusaders game? I only saw him twice in that game, one where he scored an okay try and the second where there was a massive overlap and all he needed to do was draw and pass but he decided to go himself, held up, game over 21-28. He's a selfish player and was looking for the glory.

He never took the 12 jersey from Nonu, he had it throughout the RWC and he would have had it in the Rugby Championship regardless if SBW stayed or not.

 

[big ginger 8]

Okay try? He had no right to score that.

 

[Shaggy]

I can't see the problem ... he's always insisted on the one year contract, so he's not trying to break one (ala Rudi Wulf), he's taking the money at a sensible time in his career, in terms of his ability to earn, while still keeping the door open to return to NZ Rugby if that's what he wants (and if he's good enough).

He's hardly the first ex League player to return to League after a stint in NZ Rugby (Brad Thorne), and New Zealand lose many Rugby players each year to over seas teams and league sides ... personally, I think the poaching of young, age grade players in the Auckland region by League clubs, is a much more important issue - after all, hasn't the New Zealand Rugby Union put more time, money and effort into developing these players, than SBW?

I get Nick's point, but I also think my point of view in SBW has also been vindicated over time, and that is, if he's good enough/better than over players, he should play, regardless of what might happen in the future, or how he was recruited.

SBW has been the form number 12 this year, and Nonu needed a kick up the @rse, as his form just hadn't been good enough.

As for the long term replacement in the All Blacks, I'd go with Tamati Ellison (when he returns from injury) ... I'd start with Nonu and Smith, and use Ellison of the bench.

Interesting that both Ellison and Bateman were both "lost" to New Zealand rugby prior to this season, but have returned like many before them, and welcomed with opened arms ... surely these players are also preventing the available positions to be filled by up and coming players who chose to stay in New Zealand

 

[Rhyer]

Interesting that both Ellison and Bateman were both "lost" to New Zealand rugby prior to this season, but have returned like many before them, and welcomed with opened arms ... surely these players are also preventing the available positions to be filled by up and coming players who chose to stay in New Zealand

These players don't demand special attention or as much money as a 3 time IRB player of the year and captain of the national team or the highest points scorer in test rugby.

 

[Shaggy]

These players don't demand special attention or as much money as a 3 time IRB player of the year and captain of the national team or the highest points scorer in test rugby.

Not quite sure where you are coming from there Rhyer ... SBW is none of what you've mentioned (unless that's your point) ... I'm merely pointing out that New Zealand players are "recruited" from overseas, and "lost" overseas all of the time, and there doesn't seem to be as much ill feeling towards these players as there is to SBW.

Whether you spend a lump sum on SBW, or spend money on developing players from a young age, such as Ellison and Bateman, they are still a loss on investment for the NZRU if they choose to ply their trade outside of New Zealand. One of the complaints about SBW, is that he took away a space/playing position/opportunity for a domestic placed player ... and my point is, that while some are critical that SBW did so, they advocate that Bateman and Ellison should be the replacement for SBW in the All Blacks, when in reality, they have done exact same thing as SBW, by returning to play in New Zealand.

 

[Rhyer]

Not quite sure where you are coming from there Rhyer ... SBW is none of what you've mentioned (unless that's your point) ... I'm merely pointing out that New Zealand players are "recruited" from overseas, and "lost" overseas all of the time, and there doesn't seem to be as much ill feeling towards these players as there is to SBW.

Whether you spend a lump sum on SBW, or spend money on developing players from a young age, such as Ellison and Bateman, they are still a loss on investment for the NZRU if they choose to ply their trade outside of New Zealand. One of the complaints about SBW, is that he took away a space/playing position/opportunity for a domestic placed player ... and my point is, that while some are critical that SBW did so, they advocate that Bateman and Ellison should be the replacement for SBW in the All Blacks, when in reality, they have done exact same thing as SBW, by returning to play in New Zealand.

My point is that he gets the same pay by the NZRU as Dan Carter (highest points scorer in rugby) and Richie McCaw (3 time IRB player of the year) at $750,000 per year while also demanding special attention such as allowing him to box, wait until after the World Cup to decide what franchise he would play for if he did resign for NZRU (leaving 4 days for the New Zealand teams to free money in the budget) and demand 1 year contracts.

 

[FlukeArtist]

My point is that he gets the same pay by the NZRU as Dan Carter (highest points scorer in rugby) and Richie McCaw (3 time IRB player of the year) at $750,000 per year while also demanding special attention such as allowing him to box, wait until after the World Cup to decide what franchise he would play for if he did resign for NZRU (leaving 4 days for the New Zealand teams to free money in the budget) and demand 1 year contracts.

I don't knwo where you got that information from, but Steve Tew (NZRFU) stated in a radio interview I heard that Sonny Bill is not on anywhere near that sort of money with the NZRFU.

Don't forget: A lot of SBW's income comes from 3rd party sponsorhips

 

[nickdnz]

SBW has been the form number 12 this year, and Nonu needed a kick up the @rse, as his form just hadn't been good enough.

As for the long term replacement in the All Blacks, I'd go with Tamati Ellison (when he returns from injury) ... I'd start with Nonu and Smith, and use Ellison of the bench.

Interesting that both Ellison and Bateman were both "lost" to New Zealand rugby prior to this season, but have returned like many before them, and welcomed with opened arms ... surely these players are also preventing the available positions to be filled by up and coming players who chose to stay in New Zealand

I don't know how effective a long term replacement Tamati Ellison would be seeing as he's less than 11 months younger than Ma'a Nonu.

I think the situations you mentioned are different entirely. Tim Bateman and Tamati Ellison are products of the New Zealand rugby system, all of whom would have returned on I'd imagine average salaries and have recieved no preferential treatment. Sonny Bill Williams was bought by New Zealand with a contract which other players couldn't demand. Ignoring money (I'm sure it wasn't a heck of a lot more than most senior players in Super Rugby at a starting rate, with further financial increases if/when he was promised to make the All Blacks, ontop of other media endorcements), it's the fact that he did recieve oppertunities that others didn't.

In 2010 the All Blacks killed everyone, yet the only new cap on the end of year tour was Sonny Bill Williams off a handful of NPC games in which other players such as Robbie Fruean looked better. You can compare that to Tim Bateman and Tamati Ellison getting starting spots in Super Rugby if you like, but the reality is that they had already come through the New Zealand system and proved they were the best avalible and on performance they earned it. Bringing in a novice player to invest highly in him, rather than investing in proven NZ rugby products will always be different to me and I think the NZRU's treatment of SBW is pretty disgusting.

That being said, like I've always said, good on him for him to take what he can get. Loyalty is something I respect in a player and it's something that I think SBW lacks, but I don't think he ever pretended to care about New Zealand rugby in the long run. Some of his BS about always wanting to be an All Black as a kid annoys me, as I think it's ingenuine when considering he's now leaving after not much more than a year of professional rugby in New Zealand and players like Hosea Gear who you know it means the world to miss out, but you have to credit him (and his agent and PR) for going and getting what ever he wants.

 

[Rhyer]

I wouldn't exactly call him a world cup winner either, although he is, he played 4 minutes in the final, come on in the 73rd minute in the semi and got a yellow 3 minutes later. He played the quarter against Argentina and a few pool matches but that isn't exactly heroic. I wouldn't compare it to Brad Thorn which is what people are saying he is trying to achieve (build a legacy of achievements).

For a side note; Brad Thorn played every minute of the quarter final, semi final and final. Jerome Kaino played every minute of the RWC apart from the last 5 minutes in the final where he was pretty badly injured and took a lot of convincing to get off.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Added a poll. Thought that would be nice.

 

[Zapphod]

Pity you didn't add an option for:
Don't care, he was overrated.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

What was that?

 

[admartian]

sorry that you couldnt pick up on my sarcasm. or that i couldnt pick up on yours

lol it was my bad.

Sarcasm detector was off!

Shame SBW will only ever be known as a good rugby player, a pretty good league player and an average boxer. Glad to see him go to league (eventually), the Kiwis need him more than the ABs do.

It is a shame.

Though that's what happens when all you do is chase the dollar. Not having a go at him for that; before his "harem" come in to defend the "Defenseless" Sonny Bill...

I find it strange though that he's gone to rugby lite. He probably would have got a similar deal in France with Toulon.

Maybe he just enjoys league more, that's what the rumours have been anyway.

I think he's going back to League based on a promise or handshake he's made with an un-named person.

Which is rather ironic as he doesn't really have the best record of keeping to contracts and what not...








Regarding a 12 other than Nonu, I'd like to see Kahui or Fruean given a go at that. Seeing as we haven't had an extra 'playmaker' (kicker, extra pivot and that) at that position since the Aaron Mauger and Luke McAlister days.

 

[donmcdazzle]

I wouldn't exactly call him a world cup winner either, although he is, he played 4 minutes in the final, come on in the 73rd minute in the semi and got a yellow 3 minutes later. He played the quarter against Argentina and a few pool matches but that isn't exactly heroic. I wouldn't compare it to Brad Thorn which is what people are saying he is trying to achieve (build a legacy of achievements).

For a side note; Brad Thorn played every minute of the quarter final, semi final and final. Jerome Kaino played every minute of the RWC apart from the last 5 minutes in the final where he was pretty badly injured and took a lot of convincing to get off.

Right so any squad player that didn;t play the majority of the games for any team that has won the world cup can't really call themselves world cup winners. Great logic pal. Better ring up Dan Carter and tell him he isn't actually a world cup winner after all, he will be in for a major surprise.