[Six Nations 2018] Round 2: Ireland vs Italy (10/02/2018)

[munstermuffin]

Rugby ethos is to support your club over your country because you don't like Rob Kearney? Noted!

I'm guessing the lack of a response is due to you spoofing and not having balls to quote that proof?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Really mixed bag from Ireland. The raft of second half substitutions unsettled the balance of the team.

The biggest positive for me was Andrew Porter. Did nothing flashy but looked like he belongs at this level.

Loved Keith Earls' workrate at the end to chase down a near certain try. I'm not sure he's properly valued outside of Munster. He's a great attacking player and is showing of late a more rounded game.

Jordan Larmour's footwork for his near try was outstanding. He was at fault for Italy's second try though. Good to get game time and see what he needs to achieve to progress.

When is Garry Ringrose due back? I think we'll see a Bundee Aki / Chris Farrell midfield against Wales.

Was at the game so didn't hear what happened Jack Conan. Did he come off injured at the break? Loved how he drew the last defender to put away Conor Murray for his try.

Agree with all the above, Farrell was named by Schmidt after the game, no mention of Conan though I've read it was a bang on the knee.

Is Ringrose likely to add much from a defensive perspective? I'm not actually sure how much his injury is going to affect the team, because it's too early to know how he figures into Schmidt's plans. Henshaw is obviously nailed on when fit, but the other center spots seem very much up for grabs. And outside of his tendency to move Earls to 13 in a pinch, Schmidt's preference has always been towards more physical centres.

The second half wasn't great, largely due to the younger players coming on and the inexperienced pairings. It's hard to criticize the decision to bring them on though. These guys need more experience at test level, and we can't keep putting it off. Giving them minutes against Italy is a no brainer. I'd gladly train 19 points against Italy for getting these players ready to make a real impact in more important matches down the line.

As fans, it's hard to judge how the team is going based on this match, but it always is against Italy. You just take the win and move on.

In a midfield with Henshaw he's defended very well more often than not and is very capable to continue to do so, I also think he adds a lot more going forward than Farrell and gamebreaking moments will be needed in Twickenham. There's a drop after Henshaw though, the man is a rock in midfield and after the error strewn start his handling was superb, it was looking like something that could definitely be built upon which is more than I would have said about him as a 13 before today. I also don't think you're correct about his preference for physical centres, he never split BOD and Darce up and quickly brought Ringrose in as a starter, I'd be shocked if a fit Ringrose didn't start with no Henshaw around.

Yeah but did I say it was because of RK.
And as I said Leinster did it in past but well 1 eyed look I suppose you won't see.
As I say you ain't above it. Plenty of proof of that. And well since I on it can you show me where I said I don't support Ireland because of RK. If you man enough to note it and you note Sexton has balls. Let's see have you to back up the claim?

Maybe quote it even would be great. So have you the balls to do That??????????


By way yes I have said I don't rate RK as highly as you. No more than you have said in past similar about CJ Stander not being as good as Jamie Heaslip. How it was right for Madigan to be allowed play with Ireland despite leaving but not Zebo. How POM shouldn't be in Ireland team. They opinions.
So let' see can you back up your statement

I'm guessing the lack of a response is due to you spoofing and not having balls to quote that proof?

Firstly, the balls comment and that second post are weird...

Secondly, the Rob Kearney comment is clearly hyperbole, not to be taken literally but it encompasses what ****** me off about any fan who gets bitter about the international set up, in this case for absolutely no reason other than resentment of Dublin, and start saying they're disenfranchised or don't want their province's players playing so they don't get injured, its small-minded at best. Again, this is literally aimed at anyone who thinks this way, Munster, Leinster, Connacht or Ulster but currently most of it lies in Munster, it was Connacht a couple seasons ago. I think there's one reason for this jealousy, its that Leinster is a far better set up currently and is producing better players and, as of this season, better results and this showing in the national team mixed with Joe Schmidt never having been involved in Munster and then there's also a few idiots and contrarians as there always will be. What it is not is a displeasure of playing style or a lack of results because Munster rugby was built on turgid rugby far less exciting than Ireland's current brand and for years they didn't win silverware either and then there's also the fact Joe Schmidt has the best results an Irish coach has ever seen, those are two undeniable facts and we both know that you're enamored by facts.

I'm now guessing that you're going to bring this all back to Rob Kearney, I'll reiterate that it was hyperbole - an exaggeration of my point. Now I'll explain why I used it; It's no secret that Rob Kearney is seen as a Himmler to Schmidt's Hitler by the detractors of Ireland's most successful international set up. In RK15 you have everything that La Resistance claims to hate about Irish international rugby, he's a conservative player who does the boring basics well, he's not all that flashy going forward, he was in the way of one of their own (I have no issue with this point as its a positive bias rather than a negative one) and he's a legend of Leinster rugby all of which are great crimes! There's an obsession to be against Kearney, "he's not good enough", "my granny is better", "I don't understand fullback play and Stuart Hogg scores tries" and "What's a system?" are the sort of phrases often thrown about by members of La Resistance with varying levels of self awareness against Rob Kearney, they're unfair, show a distinct lack of rugby knowledge and rarely point out where he's costing us in games. Its really something you have to question when the next guy off the bus right now is Larmour and no one in Leinster wants him ahead of Rob. So this unfair assessment is a mechanism to avoid acknowledging the reason for the resentment is that right now an Irish team's success shows Munster's inadequacies in producing players in comparison with Leinster.

You're other claim is Leinster fans used to be the ones who were like this and I am somehow to be held accountable. (The Rob Kearney comment is a terrible point, he was saying that Munster players care more about Munster!) I can assure you that even from late 2010 to 2013 when I felt Kidney wasn't the right man for the job and short of wins against Aus, England and Wales that weren't backed up he achieved nothing apart from Ireland's worst ever 6 nations I still wanted Ireland to win more than Leinster and wanted Leinster players involved, I didn't like the dated gameplan that required passionate performances to win, the lack of squad building and the inconsistency, I wanted Deccie out for the betterment of Ireland, when he left we got better. I'm sure there were Leinster fans who didn't care as much about Ireland, they were reprehensible too in terms of being a rugby fan in this country but right now there's no one outwardly expressing that, just because people in a certain place have that stance doesn't mean you have to embrace it, its not a stance I'll ever adopt and I'll have little time for anyone who does.

 

[munstermuffin]

Agree with all the above, Farrell was named by Schmidt after the game, no mention of Conan though I've read it was a bang on the knee.


In a midfield with Henshaw he's defended very well more often than not and is very capable to continue to do so, I also think he adds a lot more going forward than Farrell and gamebreaking moments will be needed in Twickenham. There's a drop after Henshaw though, the man is a rock in midfield and after the error strewn start his handling was superb, it was looking like something that could definitely be built upon which is more than I would have said about him as a 13 before today. I also don't think you're correct about his preference for physical centres, he never split BOD and Darce up and quickly brought Ringrose in as a starter, I'd be shocked if a fit Ringrose didn't start with no Henshaw around.




Firstly, the balls comment and that second post are weird...

Secondly, the Rob Kearney comment is clearly hyperbole, not to be taken literally but it encompasses what ****** me off about any fan who gets bitter about the international set up, in this case for absolutely no reason other than resentment of Dublin, and start saying they're disenfranchised or don't want their province's players playing so they don't get injured, its small-minded at best. Again, this is literally aimed at anyone who thinks this way, Munster, Leinster, Connacht or Ulster but currently most of it lies in Munster, it was Connacht a couple seasons ago. I think there's one reason for this jealousy, its that Leinster is a far better set up currently and is producing better players and, as of this season, better results and this showing in the national team mixed with Joe Schmidt never having been involved in Munster and then there's also a few idiots and contrarians as there always will be. What it is not is a displeasure of playing style or a lack of results because Munster rugby was built on turgid rugby far less exciting than Ireland's current brand and for years they didn't win silverware either and then there's also the fact Joe Schmidt has the best results an Irish coach has ever seen, those are two undeniable facts and we both know that you're enamored by facts.

I'm now guessing that you're going to bring this all back to Rob Kearney, I'll reiterate that it was hyperbole - an exaggeration of my point. Now I'll explain why I used it; It's no secret that Rob Kearney is seen as a Himmler to Schmidt's Hitler by the detractors of Ireland's most successful international set up. In RK15 you have everything that La Resistance claims to hate about Irish international rugby, he's a conservative player who does the boring basics well, he's not all that flashy going forward, he was in the way of one of their own (I have no issue with this point as its a positive bias rather than a negative one) and he's a legend of Leinster rugby all of which are great crimes! There's an obsession to be against Kearney, "he's not good enough", "my granny is better", "I don't understand fullback play and Stuart Hogg scores tries" and "What's a system?" are the sort of phrases often thrown about by members of La Resistance with varying levels of self awareness against Rob Kearney, they're unfair, show a distinct lack of rugby knowledge and rarely point out where he's costing us in games. Its really something you have to question when the next guy off the bus right now is Larmour and no one in Leinster wants him ahead of Rob. So this unfair assessment is a mechanism to avoid acknowledging the reason for the resentment is that right now an Irish team's success shows Munster's inadequacies in producing players in comparison with Leinster.

You're other claim is Leinster fans used to be the ones who were like this and I am somehow to be held accountable. (The Rob Kearney comment is a terrible point, he was saying that Munster players care more about Munster!) I can assure you that even from late 2010 to 2013 when I felt Kidney wasn't the right man for the job and short of wins against Aus, England and Wales that weren't backed up he achieved nothing apart from Ireland's worst ever 6 nations I still wanted Ireland to win more than Leinster and wanted Leinster players involved, I didn't like the dated gameplan that required passionate performances to win, the lack of squad building and the inconsistency, I wanted Deccie out for the betterment of Ireland, when he left we got better. I'm sure there were Leinster fans who didn't care as much about Ireland, they were reprehensible too in terms of being a rugby fan in this country but right now there's no one outwardly expressing that, just because people in a certain place have that stance doesn't mean you have to embrace it, its not a stance I'll ever adopt and I'll have little time for anyone who does.

Against essay but literally nothing offered on proof just alot on being bitter yourself as opinions don't agree with your own. Fact you forcefully defend RK means you the exact same just with different opinion.
No bitterness here either as I openly admit Leinster produce better amount. Alot back that up.
What I said also is I'm not fussed as much on Ireland but still follow them. And on your comments on Leinster fans in 10-13. There was alot same. Not all bit as I said alot.
And well as I said your same so again any balls to get cracking or are you spoofing?
As I said don't get up on high almighty you were same with Lions too if I remember said you weren't too bothered.
Guess it pick and choose but not bullshitting me.

So guess you can't get the quote to back up bullshitting no.

Also you are 1 who brought up RK and Schmidt. Never mentioned RK or Schmidt record so maybe it's paranoia or just save bullshit and back up comment.

All I got from essay too is attack on Munster not producing either. They actually are but beside point your just being hypocritical in a way. But again won't bother as you already shown today you biy of bullshitter with bias and hypocritical bit included.

Let' see will you have balls to prove original bit anyway

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Against essay but literally nothing offered on proof just alot on being bitter yourself as opinions don't agree with your own. Fact you forcefully defend RK means you the exact same just with different opinion.
No bitterness here either as I openly admit Leinster produce better amount. Alot back that up.
What I said also is I'm not fussed as much on Ireland but still follow them. And on your comments on Leinster fans in 10-13. There was alot same. Not all bit as I said alot.
And well as I said your same so again any balls to get cracking or are you spoofing?
As I said don't get up on high almighty you were same with Lions too if I remember said you weren't too bothered.
Guess it pick and choose but not bullshitting me.

So guess you can't get the quote to back up bullshitting no

Proof of what?

The Lions is not my country, incomparable.

 

[munstermuffin]

Proof of what?

The Lions is not my country, incomparable.

But you had Irish players and are higher level.

Proof I said I don't support Ireland or because of RK?

Don't be full of **** the whole time. Back it up. Just because opinions don't agree with yours don't be the blly type on it.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

But you had Irish players and are higher level.

Proof I said I don't support Ireland or because of RK?

Don't be full of **** the whole time. Back it up. Just because opinions don't agree with yours don't be the blly type on it.

You're reaching so far with this Lions stuff!

Prove you said something I never claimed you said... Right.

I'm out of this, you clearly don't read what I write so it's pointless!

 

[munstermuffin]

Rugby ethos is to support your club over your country because you don't like Rob Kearney? Noted!

So Alpha never said this. Wow I am amazed.
As I said you might try bully a few on this but not me. And well again your just being a hypocritical bully at times which is sad as in an era when Mental Health is fragile in the world there lads like you thriving on it

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

So Alpha never said this. Wow I am amazed

Secondly, the Rob Kearney comment is clearly hyperbole, not to be taken literally

I'm now guessing that you're going to bring this all back to Rob Kearney, I'll reiterate that it was hyperbole - an exaggeration of my point.

 

[munstermuffin]

View attachment 5640

So agan Alpha can't back up his bullshitting and can accept when others views differ.

Guess your scampering says it.

As I say you may try skip the bully tactic but hope Mods do pull this up as its sad to see bully tactic on here.

And what saddens me more is it's an Irish person letting it down. But well what harm

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

As much as I love a bit of internet beef let's stop this shall we? No point in it, it just brings down the forum.

 

[munstermuffin]

As much as I love a bit of internet beef let's stop this shall we? No point in it, it just brings down the forum.

Don't worry I done. Don't tolerate the bully style. Will leave it to him

 

[mosfeldt]

I'm happy to swap 3 tries for valuable insight into how our future players work. Some mixed performances from the bench all around the park but gives a lot of homework for Joe at least. Thought England looked beatable last night, if we don't suffer anymore key injuries I'd say we have a good shot. However given how physical this game has gotten I really can't imagine a clean bill of health 'till the final minute at Twickers. I feel like the all too familiar image of Sexton limping off is an inevitability.

We're building nice depth but not fully there yet. Our B team would not have a chance at winning away to England, though I doubt any bar NZ would. Still, with regards to England the drop off between 1st and 2nd choice for them really is not that noticeable, save the obvious like Billy or Farrell. I think history could be broken this year, with England winning 3 in a row. If we had Furlong, SOB, Ringrose and Henshaw all available I would say it would be extremely even and with a bit of luck (Paddys Day and all) we might swing it. The first 3 are yet a possibility.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I'm happy to swap 3 tries for valuable insight into how our future players work. Some mixed performances from the bench all around the park but gives a lot of homework for Joe at least. Thought England looked beatable last night, if we don't suffer anymore key injuries I'd say we have a good shot. However given how physical this game has gotten I really can't imagine a clean bill of health 'till the final minute at Twickers. I feel like the all too familiar image of Sexton limping off is an inevitability.

We're building nice depth but not fully there yet. Our B team would not have a chance at winning away to England, though I doubt any bar NZ would. Still, with regards to England the drop off between 1st and 2nd choice for them really is not that noticeable, save the obvious like Billy or Farrell. I think history could be broken this year, with England winning 3 in a row. If we had Furlong, SOB, Ringrose and Henshaw all available I would say it would be extremely even and with a bit of luck (Paddys Day and all) we might swing it. The first 3 are yet a possibility.

I think it was the right decision. The game was won with a 4 try bonus point so wrap Murray and Sexton in cotton wool and give the new guys a chance. I was rather disappointed with Italy to be honest, defence was a shambles and their attack is way too simple. Just one up forward runners with no variation.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'm happy to swap 3 tries for valuable insight into how our future players work. Some mixed performances from the bench all around the park but gives a lot of homework for Joe at least. Thought England looked beatable last night, if we don't suffer anymore key injuries I'd say we have a good shot. However given how physical this game has gotten I really can't imagine a clean bill of health 'till the final minute at Twickers. I feel like the all too familiar image of Sexton limping off is an inevitability.

We're building nice depth but not fully there yet. Our B team would not have a chance at winning away to England, though I doubt any bar NZ would. Still, with regards to England the drop off between 1st and 2nd choice for them really is not that noticeable, save the obvious like Billy or Farrell. I think history could be broken this year, with England winning 3 in a row. If we had Furlong, SOB, Ringrose and Henshaw all available I would say it would be extremely even and with a bit of luck (Paddys Day and all) we might swing it. The first 3 are yet a possibility.

I think Schmidt wanted a 40 point win, he took Sexton off after that was achieved and the players went for a score with the clock in red, short of that it was definitely worth seeing the new kids even if Larmour was out of position.

As for the second part I kind of disagree, no one in the world is winning a world cup with a b team, but NZ could take 6-8 injuries anywhere in their 1st team and be competitive whereas Ireland and England need to be more selective. One injury to their starting 8 and England's backrow become pretty poor relative to their international competition, and the same could be said about their halfbacks and centres, for us it's centre, back three and second row. I think the potential is there to get where we need in the second row and back three with our current options but we need to get creative with our centres. Winning in Twickers is always going to be a huge ask and the four players you mentioned are hugely important, presuming we don't see a miracle recovery from Henshaw Ringrose and Furlong are a must, SOB is always a bonus when he's fit given his profile.

 

[munstermuffin]

For stats on our attack. Check the article ran in Examiner.
RK was only 15 in World rugby to not make a clean break this weekend.
Our centres were most crash balls for first 2 weeks in 6Nations by a distance.
Statistically we have went out wide the least by a distance of any tier 1 team in world rugby since season started.
But craziest stat of all our kicking numbers have decreased. We have kicked the ball less than previous years. Of all our back 3 players in the last year Earls and Stockdale are only 2 who seem to be beating defenders and averaging big metres run per game.

On scrum Porter stats seem to back up his good game. POM seems to have massive ruck numbers. But more worrying is seeing our backs as a whole seem to be very inefficient at rucks. Get there but not actively having something to show for it.

Interestingly too we have never managed to score more than 1 try against England under Schmidt. Only 1 in last 2 games vs Wales and 1 in last 4 vs France.

Also since 2014 when we only conceded 3 tries it seems our defensive system is cracking too and the concession of 4 tries in 2 games is 1 of our worst defensive starts to 6nations.

 

[MikeTheNative]

It just seems like the centres are there to either run straight or be there to give Sexton a loop pass. I'm not sure why Schmidt doesn't trust Henshaw more to let him play the ball a bit. Speaking of him, any news on his injury?

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

RK was only 15 in World rugby to not make a clean break this weekend.

When Romain Poite gets in the way of an easy line break and clear try, you know it's not your day!

Stats aren't altogether unsurprising. Tries scored against England, Wales and France are a concern.

 

[munstermuffin]

When Romain Poite gets in the way of an easy line break and clear try, you know it's not your day!

Stats aren't altogether unsurprising. Tries scored against England, Wales and France are a concern.

Fair comment on RK bit wasn't actually slating him. His stats overall weren't great in an attacking view but overall the bigger concern is collective.
Excluding the Chicago game vs NZ our try scoring is poor compared to top teams.
Also our defensive record creaking is a slight concern.
It's funny like if we were all out attack and it was like ok you score 5 as we will score 6 then In would say fine but as stats show it's not that way.
Also it's hard to point the area to fix it. Like I know I say RK offers nothing in attack but also admit that is far from only issue in this. Centres are obviously an issue as well as use of wingers. But an interesting 1 is also the use of forward pods. We position much closer to be more conservative. It means we are less likely to be hit via quick turnover but offset is we are very narrow and easier to defend against and any real yardage is made by individuals being powerful carriers than bits of creativeness picking gaps

 

[big ginger 8]

Well Parisse said we were harder to defend than England, so we're ******* brilliant!

 

[MikeTheNative]

Ireland 2018 Grand Slam winners confirmed, let's call the rest of the games off.