[Six Nations 2018] Round 2: Ireland vs Italy (10/02/2018)

[ncurd]

Not good enough, that point difference won't be enough if it comes down to points.

+6 On England so not terrible but most would think England will beat France by more than 2 points.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

+6 On England so not terrible but most would think England will beat France by more than 2 points.

Well all round the media England conceding 2 tries has been used as a sign of frailties in defence, pretty sure Ireland almost conceding a bonus losing point to Italy should be treated the same way.

 

[Jockstap]

+6 On England so not terrible but most would think England will beat France by more than 2 points.

Exactement

 

[Groundhog]

Not thoroughly convinced by our performances thus far, hopefully we grow into the competition. The new guys we brought in today definitely did our tempo no favors today honestly. The notion of them running riot was proved false.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Well all round the media England conceding 2 tries has been used as a sign of frailties in defence, pretty sure Ireland almost conceding a bonus losing point to Italy should be treated the same way.

Meh, they all came after the bench was emptied, England's were conceded by the starters.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Not thoroughly convinced by our performances thus far, hopefully we grow into the competition. The new guys we brought in today definitely did our tempo no favors today honestly. The notion of them running riot was proved false.

Henshaw was a huge huge loss defensively. Without Ringrose we could struggle against Wales and definitely won't win in Twickers.

 

[munstermuffin]

+6 On England so not terrible but most would think England will beat France by more than 2 points.

I think Ireland have the matter of beating Wales and Scotland first

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Meh, they all came after the bench was emptied, England's were conceded by the starters.

Yet sections of the media also tried to reduce England's performance by saying Italy always tired after 60 and so it's not so impressive scoring in that time. Ireland were conceding against Italy at a time everyone said they are weakest? This isn't a jab at Ireland, it's a jab at the double standards applied to how England is discussed in the media.

Eng: 7 tries and concede 2 vs Italy = weak performance, vastly improved Italy, scoreline flattered England, defensive frailties
Ire: 8 tries and concede 3 (almost 4) = Should be same as above if there is any consistency.

Eng win 2 times in Ireland in last 10 years and it is a site of perennial defeat (Tom Fordyce) but Wales beat England 3 times at Twickers in the same time frame and they have nothing to fear about coming to Twickers.

Seriously, England and another team could play exactly the same game and get completely different reactions.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yet sections of the media also tried to reduce England's performance by saying Italy always tired after 60 and so it's not so impressive scoring in that time. Ireland were conceding against Italy at a time everyone said they are weakest? This isn't a jab at Ireland, it's a jab at the double standards applied to how England is discussed in the media.

Eng: 7 tries and concede 2 vs Italy = weak performance, vastly improved Italy, scoreline flattered England, defensive frailties
Ire: 8 tries and concede 3 (almost 4) = Should be same as above if there is any consistency.

Eng win 2 times in Ireland in last 10 years and it is a site of perennial defeat (Tom Fordyce) but Wales beat England 3 times at Twickers in the same time frame and they have nothing to fear about coming to Twickers.

Seriously, England and another team could play exactly the same game and get completely different reactions.

You could say that about any two teams to be fair. Our attack is shite after France despite 10 in 3 games and Italy were so bad it won't count for anything! The negativity in some corners of the country and media are ridiculous considering we're currently on a 9 game win streak, we could win a slam and there'd be claims that there was no point because it did nothing for the RWC or we played too conservatively. There's heads like Muff who clearly favour their province over the country and have done since the Deccie days were done and he's far from the worst!

 

[munstermuffin]

You could say that about any two teams to be fair. Our attack is shite after France despite 10 in 3 games and Italy were so bad it won't count for anything! The negativity in some corners of the country and media are ridiculous considering we're currently on a 9 game win streak, we could win a slam and there'd be claims that there was no point because it did nothing for the RWC or we played too conservatively. There's heads like Muff who clearly favour their province over the country and have done since the Deccie days were done and he's far from the worst!

No more so than Leinster fans in some quarters were in 09 Alpha. As I say maybe it goes in cycles but can't get on a high horse as well just as guilty as the rest. And if a Flannery got Irish job and selected alot of Munster fans Leinster fans etc would again so save the high and above it all bullshit as history shows different. And Leinster players would back that up. As the famous Kearney speaking at Carton house addressed it as well as with players.

On our attack. It's statistically proven to be poor. But it's more the results that matter. As I said Ireland won't win a World Cup but I do think to really achieve Schmidt wants a Slam. And the media were great at times to some when attacking individuals etc. Guess it can't be pick and choose.

Again on a 9 win streak. A good achievement but in those 9 games there is Italy, Japan x2 and USA. Now Ireland can only beat what's in front of them but things like streaks mean **** all in reality as they don't put anything in perspective.
Munster had the best win streak last year and won nothing.
Leinster are said to have the best squad for last 2 or 3 years by Media and have won **** all.

It's trophies that are the measure.
As in 2 years of winning 5 games on a row in Feb/March is 1000 times better than x amount of games winning streak with nothing to show for it.
And that's not a dig at Ireland. That is more an aim at everyone.

But there no point feeding the media bullshit. Munster blanked them correctly. But you can't say oh defensive mind first and then turn and say we are a creative team.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

You could say that about any two teams to be fair. Our attack is shite after France despite 10 in 3 games and Italy were so bad it won't count for anything! The negativity in some corners of the country and media are ridiculous considering we're currently on a 9 game win streak, we could win a slam and there'd be claims that there was no point because it did nothing for the RWC or we played too conservatively. There's heads like Muff who clearly favour their province over the country and have done since the Deccie days were done and he's far from the worst!

come on, 0 line breaks in an entire game IS bad attack. I'm saying England could have identical or superior stats to another team yet it is constantly twisted to be negative.

 

[munstermuffin]

come on, 0 line breaks in an entire game IS bad attack. I'm saying England could have identical or superior stats to another team yet it is constantly twisted to be negative.

Exactly as I have been saying Ireland are an efficint team. They wear down and force mistake and get scoreboard ticking. And get result too.
They are not a good attacking team but that doesn't mean they aren't a successful team.

On side note.
Conan is ok just bang on knee.
Furlong is doubt for Wales but hopeful.
Henshaw done for 6 months or more I'd say

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

come on, 0 line breaks in an entire game IS bad attack. I'm saying England could have identical or superior stats to another team yet it is constantly twisted to be negative.

How is that different to what I said? That was an isolated game with a lot of factors added in (weather, ref, Paris voodoo) it was not consistent to other Ireland games and it was obvious that it wasn't a classic performance but a great win that got hounded for little to no reason. There's certain corners of the media/fanbase who want to turn everything negative, look at the post above yours or Munsterfans for it on steroids and there's plenty of it in punditry too.

Most of it in Ireland is similar due to the resentment against Leinster/Dublin it's just on a smaller scale. There's not much value in listening, I find it fun to read!

 

[munstermuffin]

How is that different to what I said? That was an isolated game with a lot of factors added in (weather, ref, Paris voodoo) it was not consistent to other Ireland games and it was obvious that it wasn't a classic performance but a great win that got hounded for little to no reason. There's certain corners of the media/fanbase who want to turn everything negative, look at the post above yours or Munsterfans for it on steroids and there's plenty of it in punditry too.

Most of it in Ireland is similar due to the resentment against Leinster/Dublin it's just on a smaller scale. There's not much value in listening, I find it fun to read!

Again Alpha not above it. As I said in past other stats show it not just 1 game.

And again if all you can do is throw the sly comments guess it shows as I said you not above it just and not of rugby ethos. Maybe a pity as you prob had some valid points but ruin it a bit

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Really mixed bag from Ireland. The raft of second half substitutions unsettled the balance of the team.

The biggest positive for me was Andrew Porter. Did nothing flashy but looked like he belongs at this level.

Loved Keith Earls' workrate at the end to chase down a near certain try. I'm not sure he's properly valued outside of Munster. He's a great attacking player and is showing of late a more rounded game.

Jordan Larmour's footwork for his near try was outstanding. He was at fault for Italy's second try though. Good to get game time and see what he needs to achieve to progress.

When is Garry Ringrose due back? I think we'll see a Bundee Aki / Chris Farrell midfield against Wales.

Was at the game so didn't hear what happened Jack Conan. Did he come off injured at the break? Loved how he drew the last defender to put away Conor Murray for his try.

 

[munstermuffin]

Really mixed bag from Ireland. The raft of second half substitutions unsettled the balance of the team.

The biggest positive for me was Andrew Porter. Did nothing flashy but looked like he belongs at this level.

Loved Keith Earls' workrate at the end to chase down a near certain try. I'm not sure he's properly valued outside of Munster. He's a great attacking player and is showing of late a more rounded game.

Jordan Larmour's footwork for his near try was outstanding. He was at fault for Italy's second try though. Good to get game time and see what he needs to achieve to progress.

When is Garry Ringrose due back? I think we'll see a Bundee Aki / Chris Farrell midfield against Wales.

Was at the game so didn't hear what happened Jack Conan. Did he come off injured at the break? Loved how he drew the last defender to put away Conor Murray for his try.

Ringtone possible to be fit vs Wales but Schmidt name dropped Farrell. Ringtone may need game time before put in.
Conan was very good and offers something very different. Picked up a swollen knee.

On Larmour he was caught a few times defensively and positional too but will learn. Also the amount of time available to make decisions was a big jump he will learn too.
Porter did very well but again hard to judge 100% today as Italy were terrible BUT Porter can only deal with what is in front of him

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Again Alpha not above it. As I said in past other stats show it not just 1 game.

And again if all you can do is throw the sly comments guess it shows as I said you not above it just and not of rugby ethos. Maybe a pity as you prob had some valid points but ruin it a bit

Rugby ethos is to support your club over your country because you don't like Rob Kearney? Noted!

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Meh, they all came after the bench was emptied, England's were conceded by the starters.

I'd agree with that and as such take far less positives from this match than last week. On 38 mins Italy made 74 tackles and missed 14. That's pretty diabolical regardless of the quality of opposition. Defensively they weren't great last year but Brendan Venter was sought after as defensive coach. I fear they are regressing a bit defensively without him. It's not all on Boni either.

Still, as pointed out in commentary, the scorelines look ugly but at least Italy are looking to score tries for 80mins rather than simply avoid humiliation. As such, there will often be wider losing margins.

A second solid game by the Larmour piercing bullet Minozzi. Allan still kicking okayish and a degree of attacking shape. ToH would have saved Ireland two tries (j/k)

As a neutral it was frustrating to see 10, 12 & 13 look like they were starting to gel for Ireland, only to see Henshaw get injured. I'd share the pessimism above about that. It's arguably the one area where Ireland lack proven depth.

Sounds like the u20s gave Ireland a real fright - so I'll cling to that!

 

[munstermuffin]

Rugby ethos is to support your club over your country because you don't like Rob Kearney? Noted!

Yeah but did I say it was because of RK.
And as I said Leinster did it in past but well 1 eyed look I suppose you won't see.
As I say you ain't above it. Plenty of proof of that. And well since I on it can you show me where I said I don't support Ireland because of RK. If you man enough to note it and you note Sexton has balls. Let's see have you to back up the claim?

Maybe quote it even would be great. So have you the balls to do That??????????


By way yes I have said I don't rate RK as highly as you. No more than you have said in past similar about CJ Stander not being as good as Jamie Heaslip. How it was right for Madigan to be allowed play with Ireland despite leaving but not Zebo. How POM shouldn't be in Ireland team. They opinions.
So let' see can you back up your statement

 

[Hanley!]

Henshaw was a huge huge loss defensively. Without Ringrose we could struggle against Wales and definitely won't win in Twickers.

Is Ringrose likely to add much from a defensive perspective? I'm not actually sure how much his injury is going to affect the team, because it's too early to know how he figures into Schmidt's plans. Henshaw is obviously nailed on when fit, but the other center spots seem very much up for grabs. And outside of his tendency to move Earls to 13 in a pinch, Schmidt's preference has always been towards more physical centres.

The second half wasn't great, largely due to the younger players coming on and the inexperienced pairings. It's hard to criticize the decision to bring them on though. These guys need more experience at test level, and we can't keep putting it off. Giving them minutes against Italy is a no brainer. I'd gladly train 19 points against Italy for getting these players ready to make a real impact in more important matches down the line.

As fans, it's hard to judge how the team is going based on this match, but it always is against Italy. You just take the win and move on.