Scotland v South Africa - 10 Nov 2024 - 16:10

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Thank you.
This is going to sound very, very stupid, but help me out please: could you define what a roll means in this context? Is it just grabbing someone and moving him sideways? That's it? Regardless of leg placement (that'd be a red, i understand now!) it would still be penalized?



The issue i have with these sort of things ( i have a lot but one of the main ones) is that it appears the people coming up with these marvelous ideas see players are robots, who just need to adjust some parameters in their cpu and voila! Everything is fixed. It's mind blowing.
These are very fast paced, dynamic situations where players have no only to make split second decisions; they also have to execute them in a context where there are a LOT of things out of their control (i.e. 3 or more other players whose actions they do not control nor know in advance). And the rule changes sometimes expect the players to go from 100 kph to 0 from one weekend to the other, disregarding decades of training, drilling, and muscle memory. The point of training, THE ENTIRE BLOODY point is to make some things instinctive. This destroy so much of that.

I get that player safety is paramount, but there has to be a better way to address this.

This weekend a guy at the pub said: 'it's not just that i dont get the rules anymore. I'm not even asking the rules to make sense. Just please for the love of god stop changing them. I can't keep up with the changes'. I believe he has a point.

 

[General Melchett]

What happens to the sin bin clock? Do they reset the clock so the "real" culprit serves the full 10?

No. The real culprit serves what's remaining of the 10. It's not perfect but at least they've got the right player and the right offence for the bunker review which the TMO will have already started working on.

 

[AlRums]

I'm glad Al isn't a ref. Scotland would have ended the game with 0 pens and 23 on the pitch.

Just as it should be

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

In case anyone's interested i thought this might come in handy

 

[Reiser99]

In case anyone's interested i thought this might come in handy

View attachment 21519

Laterally would suggest it's not a croc roll. Tbh the red seems less to do with the roll and more the landing on the legs.

 

[AlRums]

In case anyone's interested i thought this might come in handy

View attachment 21519

And the only sanctions listed are a penalty,not a red card.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

And the only sanctions listed are a penalty,not a red card.

I dont know, but i'd bet the house there's a directive, memo or something along those lines to back it up.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I have long since come to the conclusion that asking for consistency WRT interpretation and implementation of the rules or rather "laws" of the game is a fantasy. And even more so when it comes to foul play.

For whatever reason- probably Rassie's rants during the B&I Lions tour and subsequent.. change of heart (or more accurately put, more acceptable manipulation)- it feels like SA is getting the rub of the green in that regard more often than not which as a South African I find preferable if we cannot manage consistency or parity of a sorts. I am fully expecting those winds to change at some point. Hopefully to something more a semblance of fair play.

 

[AlRums]

I'm going to be interested in the result of Cumming's disciplinary this evening.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I have long since come to the conclusion that asking for consistency WRT interpretation and implementation of the rules or rather "laws" of the game is a fantasy.

I agree with the spirit of that message. Small caveat tho: expecting consistency is a fantasy, but asking for it should be our North.

I dont have a problem with the authorities being inconsistent. Rephrase: i do, but i understand they have a very, very, very difficult job and i can tolerate it. As long as they are candid about it. It can be a very hard pill to swallow when you are on the receiving end, but again, expecting them to be flawless is not only unrealistic, it's just stupid.
I do have a problem when they (authorities) either

a) disregard the issue of consistency (or fail to address it publicly)
or
b) resort to dialectic gymnastics that would make Nadia Comaneci look like a third class amateur, in order to justify their decisions, or in an attempt to change the narrative


Rassie's rant was, imo, exemplary. Every, every single response i've read to his rant (please let me know if i missed something) either only addressed or focused on Rassie's form, and not the content of his message. And he took the job of being very, very specific in his criticism.
That is why, imo, his words resonated so profoundly with so many people, particularly at club level. A big part of his message was, paraphrasing, 'i am at the top of the mountain here, supposedly an expert, and i dont really understand many of the calls refs are making'. From Antwerp to Montevideo, i get a very, very similar feeling whenever i walk into a pub to watch a match.

 

[ajwffc]

I'm going to be interested in the result of Cumming's disciplinary this evening.

One week ban

Scott Cummings: Scotland lock given one-week ban for red card

Scotland lock Scott Cummings is handed a one-week suspension for his red card during Sunday's defeat by South Africa.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[AlRums]

One week ban

Scott Cummings: Scotland lock given one-week ban for red card

Scotland lock Scott Cummings is handed a one-week suspension for his red card during Sunday's defeat by South Africa.

www.bbc.co.uk

Disgraceful, but could've been worse.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I agree with the spirit of that message. Small caveat tho: expecting consistency is a fantasy, but asking for it should be our North.

I dont have a problem with the authorities being inconsistent. Rephrase: i do, but i understand they have a very, very, very difficult job and i can tolerate it. As long as they are candid about it. It can be a very hard pill to swallow when you are on the receiving end, but again, expecting them to be flawless is not only unrealistic, it's just stupid.
I do have a problem when they (authorities) either

a) disregard the issue of consistency (or fail to address it publicly)
or
b) resort to dialectic gymnastics that would make Nadia Comaneci look like a third class amateur, in order to justify their decisions, or in an attempt to change the narrative


Rassie's rant was, imo, exemplary. Every, every single response i've read to his rant (please let me know if i missed something) either only addressed or focused on Rassie's form, and not the content of his message. And he took the job of being very, very specific in his criticism.
That is why, imo, his words resonated so profoundly with so many people, particularly at club level. A big part of his message was, paraphrasing, 'i am at the top of the mountain here, supposedly an expert, and i dont really understand many of the calls refs are making'. From Antwerp to Montevideo, i get a very, very similar feeling whenever i walk into a pub to watch a match.

Yes, I fully agree the aim should be for 'perfection' still. A part of the allure of rugby is rooted in its complexity and at the same time its flow and I would be sad to see that lost along the way. Otherwise we might as well just watch NFL.

One week ban

Scott Cummings: Scotland lock given one-week ban for red card

Scotland lock Scott Cummings is handed a one-week suspension for his red card during Sunday's defeat by South Africa.

www.bbc.co.uk

I suppose zero weeks would have been acknowledgment of mistakes having been made.

I am not certain it wasn't a red, its just that all these various law trials and clandestine directives makes it very hard for even a long time rugby fan (or maybe especially us) to feel like we have a handle on what expectations are.