Sam Burgess...What do we think?

[Tubularbandage]

Nope. Not true. Sorry.

It's not about being anti-union or a wind up merchant.

I am simply evangelical about Burgess. Fan boy. I admit it.

For many years I was a broadcast sports journalist. I love sport. The stories. The heroes. The achievements. The drama. I watch it all. I analyse it all.

And the simple fact is I believe (sadly) that SB is bigger than League. But he's bigger than Union too. He could be Ali, Federer, Bolt.

This is physically a once in a generation athlete with the personality, back-story, aura and cross over appeal to lift the whole sport of rugby (both codes) beyond just the back pages. Beyond just commonwealth country involvement.

He's Neo. He's the golden goose. This is not a false dawn.

So I get frustrated when comments which seemingly question his value or impact are made. Or which hold him up as an example of the death of Union.

Soz.

 

[ruggabee]

He's beginning to sound like the cure to cancer.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Haha Burgess is a very good league player, but let's not pretend he is that special. The younger bother already looks to be just as good as he is.

Paul Gallen can give you 95% of what Burgess produces week in week out anyway.

He might be good at union, he might not. Purely on his physicality he should be decent, I just don't know how much he can offer other than hitting up straight to begin with.

 

[goodNumber10]

Nope. Not true. Sorry.

It's not about being anti-union or a wind up merchant.

I am simply evangelical about Burgess. Fan boy. I admit it.

For many years I was a broadcast sports journalist. I love sport. The stories. The heroes. The achievements. The drama. I watch it all. I analyse it all.

And the simple fact is I believe (sadly) that SB is bigger than League. But he's bigger than Union too. He could be Ali, Federer, Bolt.

This is physically a once in a generation athlete with the personality, back-story, aura and cross over appeal to lift the whole sport of rugby (both codes) beyond just the back pages. Beyond just commonwealth country involvement.

He's Neo. He's the golden goose. This is not a false dawn.

So I get frustrated when comments which seemingly question his value or impact are made. Or which hold him up as an example of the death of Union.

Soz.

Your opening comment was about how negative this forum is towards league which simply isn't true.

And all ^^^^that'd be great if there were actually comments questioning his validity.

People have questioned how he will be used in the game and if that use is correct. Big difference.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Haha Burgess is a very good league player, but let's not pretend he is that special. The younger bother already looks to be just as good as he is.

Paul Gallen can give you 95% of what Burgess produces week in week out anyway.

He might be good at union, he might not. Purely on his physicality he should be decent, I just don't know how much he can offer other than hitting up straight to begin with.

I definitely don't think he is a once in a generation athlete - there are a heap of guys in league let alone Union just as big, strong and fast. Jonah Lomu was a once in a generation specimen. Burgess not so much.

 

[Beau Geste]

I think we need to take a cold hard look at things. Take the Grand Final. Based on what I saw, I believe the game changer was George Burgess with that amazing try he scored and overall I think the MOM was between GB and Greg Inglis. I would have had Sam as 3rd. I watch all Souths games.

People are getting carried away due to the bravery he showed, which was amazing, but bravery doesn't correlate to ability. I think he should be a great success in Union, but he's proved nothing yet because he has to learn a new game. About the only thing they have in common is the ball's the same and both are physically demanding. About the only position where they are alike is winger. Sam's not a winger. His natural position in Union is as a backrower, but there's a huge learning curve.

 

[nickdnz]

This is actually just crazy how much some people are predicting he'll be the biggest name in rugby/once in a generation athlete/whatever else.

I don't even think he's the best player in league. He's big and strong, but I'd be surprised if he genuinely becomes a world-class inside centre. He doesn't have that much pace and virtually no experience running plays. It's exciting to see what he can do, but people are certainly getting a bit carried away..

 

[goodNumber10]

This is actually just crazy how much some people are predicting he'll be the biggest name in rugby/once in a generation athlete/whatever else.

I don't even think he's the best player in league. He's big and strong, but I'd be surprised if he genuinely becomes a world-class inside centre. He doesn't have that much pace and virtually no experience running plays. It's exciting to see what he can do, but people are certainly getting a bit carried away..

I agree with this. He will be ok at centre, world class? Maybe, but probably not, just because big physcial 12's aren't really that effective in this day and age where defences are only 2-3 metres away.

I think he will a big impact on the game, both as a player and with his profile, and playing wise I think he'll make an exceptional 6 or 8 though, and I just wonder why Bath are wasting time "teaching" him one skill set only to move him elsewhere.

I wonder what all these people will say if he flops?

 

[ratsapprentice]

They aren't teaching him to be an inside centre though...

They are teaching him to be a back-rower... hence Flouw being his "mentor".
They see IC as the easiest position to drip feed him experience - I don't think he'll play in the centre in an important game.

He wont need very much training in order to play LV cup rugby in the midfield. Especially because it doesn't matter how good he is as an IC.
What we want him to learn from his time there is presenting the ball, the difference in tackle and carrying technique, and breakdown work.
Not all the IC specific stuff.

 

[goodNumber10]

I understand that hence "" either side of Teaching, but the game you play as a 12 is completely different to the game at 6/8 and regardless of what we say he'll have to learn rugby twice - yeah there are transferable skills but even so.....

With my coaches cap on it just seems like a redundant process to me, just throw him into the back row, drip feed him in via training and A games.

This to me smacks of Bath just wanting their big signing to he pitch ASAP.

 

[SimonG]

He's beginning to sound like the cure to cancer.

:lol:

Tubularbandage..lovin your enthusiasm fella. Don't let some folk on here p*ss on your chips.

I agree Burgess is big time. He got me watching last years RLWC...immense performance. Watched the Aussie documentary on him and he came across really well. He's a natural born leader, balls as big as space hoppers.

Yeah he will be the biggest name in English Rugby Union (as I said before he's the biggest English name in the two codes combined)..but for him to be THE name of Rugby Union he would have to do something akin to being the main man to take England to next years RWC. I definitely think its possible...especially if he and Tuilagi strike up a formidable centre partnership.

 

[Zed]

I agree with this. He will be ok at centre, world class? Maybe, but probably not, just because big physcial 12's aren't really that effective in this day and age where defences are only 2-3 metres away.

I think he will a big impact on the game, both as a player and with his profile, and playing wise I think he'll make an exceptional 6 or 8 though, and I just wonder why Bath are wasting time "teaching" him one skill set only to move him elsewhere.

I wonder what all these people will say if he flops?

Yeah he won't succeed at centre, at least not at international level. He simply does not have the ball skills, the pace, the ability to read the game etc etc And the ability to read a game comes with years of playing the game. An IC needs to have a similar skillset to a 10. 10 gets dragged into a ruck or maul, IC becomes first receiver and he needs to be something other than a crash ball centre. That said, he is immensely powerful, I've watched some Souths games and he's had 3 big forwards on him that have been unable to prevent him scoring a try. He's very hard to put down and will make a lot of yardage from IC. What it comes down to is basically is his effectiveness at breaking tackles & making breaks going to be enough to negate his other shortcomings I mentioned earlier - lack of a passing game, pace etc. Who knows. I suppose it's a moot point if he's being groomed for back row.

 

[Peat]

This to me smacks of Bath just wanting their big signing to he pitch ASAP.

The best way to learn rugby, no?

If Mike Ford reckons this is the best way for him to learn, then I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss. Although I always got the impression that Ford's plans were somewhat fluid - no way to be completely sure what you can do with Burgess until actually working with him.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

While I do think people should be careful to have unrealistic expectations which I can't see too many of in a quick read I do think there is a huge amount to get excited about just because of Burgess' erm.. spec's if I can put it like that. He doesn't need to be Dan Carter, Read or Matt Giteau ITO rugby union nouse to make an impact for England in Union. It's not like Willem Alberts is the epitomy of grace and footballing skill but damn, are we missing his presence for the Bokke. Burgess is as big? or near enough as big? but more agile so if I were an Englishman and/or Bath fan I too would be getting very excited indeed. No need to rain on anybody's parade before the fact.

 

[Aristodemus]

I think we all don't really know how he will get on, we will have to wait and see. It's exciting though, I just want to see him get some game time. I agree with Ford that playing him in games asap (regardless of position) will be the best way to learn. I have my doubts one year is enough for him to start in the WC though. It isn't wing (like Billy).

 

[Tubularbandage]

The try George scored in the grand final came from broken play created by a Sam break and offload.

George is a good player but he's an out and out league prop, doesn't have the speed, mobility and awareness of Sam.

On stats alone Gallen is a very good league lock, but stats don't tell the whole story. He is not a game changer.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Notice the "on a ball" Dyson sponsor's text... that's the slogan worn by back-rowers.

Steve James says he's been told that Sam will now start in the back-row.

 

[Aristodemus]

Chucking him straight in at 8? wow.

 

[ratsapprentice]

6/8... bearing in mind we played a lock at 6 and 8 in our last game.

 

[Tubularbandage]

If he's going in at 8, he's been doing a lot more union prep than anyone has let on.