Sam Burgess...What do we think?

[Philiproser]

Who else is buzzing to see Sam Burgess in Rugby Union http://www.theextralap.co.uk/rugby-league-rugby-union-big-sam-impact/

 

[ruggabee]

Saw an article about the possibility of him switching to union. What position would he play though? League converts tend to only be successful when they can play as a back but I don't think he can.

 

[Aristodemus]

He could be Warren Gatland's wet dream of an IC.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I think he can be a success but with only one year to go until RWC2015, is he leaving it too late to make an impact?

 

[munstermuffin]

Hope it's not pressure in Lancaster to pick him straight away.....

 

[Sam Owen]

I think he can be a success but with only one year to go until RWC2015, is he leaving it too late to make an impact?

Well thats the question really isnt it. We know he's one of the best League forwards in the world, maybe THE best. Strong, robust, line-breaking runner.

To go a bit more indepth with your question snoop.

What position would best suit his abilities? he's a handful for defences so he'd make an effective meter-eater/line-breaker in the centres. Only problem for him being in the backs is, would he be able to keep up with his opposite on defence when they go to run and overs (run towards him and then swerve on his outside) play on him.

I'd try him at no.8 personally but then it comes down to how fast he adapts to that position. Once they give him a position there really is no time for trying him elsewhere. So his position for Union needs to be specific to his abilities and attributes not just his attacking prowess. Hes got one year to establish the duties of his position, how Union is played and this is all to be covered playing at the highest level.

So for Slammin Sammy its a lot. Is he leaving it too late? yes. Can he do it? yes ofcourse he can, so long as he starts to master his position. If England make the 2015 RWC final would they field him? I'd doubt it at this stage unless ofcourse he had a lot to do with getting them there.

Hope he signs over and then goes back to League cos hes such a good League player.

 

[Scarlet11]

Hi everyone x

 

[Zed]

Yeah pretty much what Sam Owen said..

I can't see him playing in the backs, if he does it will place certain restrictions on the backline e.g 3rd or 4th phase ball 10m from the tryline, quick hands are needed to monopolise the overlap - is he going to be able to shift the ball from 12 outside with a lightening quick accurate pass? A skill that can take years for flyhalves and centres to develop? He will be effective playing in the backs crashing the ball up or running off an outside player, but really to play 12 or 13 at international level for a team that has aspirations to win the world cup you can't be a one trick pony. You have to be quick, you have to be mobile and you have to be able to read the game - knowing what to do in certain situations, when to pass, when not to pass or predicting what the opposition are going to do in the next phase and preparing yourself accordingly. And obviously there's tackling - there are numerous youtube clips of him putting on these big hits, tackles that are totally illegal in union and probably pushing the boundaries of what is acceptable in league. Needless to say his technique is poor. I reckon he could make the WC for 2015 though. In general, most league converts have been a success, at least in Australia, Matt Rogers, Tuquiri, Sailor etc etc and he's currently rated as one of the best forwards in the NRL, so I would imagine he'd have something to offer in Union. Probably as a back-rower.

 

[SimonG]

Would love to see Burgess for England. Watched the Rugby League WC which was the first time I had seen Burgess and what stood out for me was the excitement he generated. There ain't many stars in Rugby Union, Burgess would be a star. He gets people up off their seat...there are currently no England players that do that. England has been stagnant since 2003 and Burgess could just be the spark to ignite the team. He's a wonderful ball carrier and that's something England have lacked for years. There hasn't been a household name in England since Wilkinson, and I believe Burgess (if he makes the move) will be the next. Let's hope common sense prevails and the sport overcomes the silly vote to allow a unique talent play the game.

 

[Maverick1987]

I think he could play inside or outside centre . He would definitely need to work on his passing but he's very quick for a man his size and one of the powerful runners in RL .

Basically I think if he learns to pass he would be incredible

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xIMa6n0AUzw

Another video here : http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=30OjXw-niu8

Looks like his tackling might need a bit of work otherwise he will be banned all the time

 

[SimonG]

His tackling does need to be refined that's for sure. Being brought up in League his skill set is far greater than most in Union so i expect him to slot in rather easily. He won't get the ball anywhere near as much so his concentration will have to be greater.

England have been weak at centre since Greenwood/Tindall and are crying out for a match winner in that position. Farrell at fly half is a pretty good goal kicker but a creator he is not, therefore more is required of the centres to do something. Twelvetrees falls way short.

 

[nickdnz]

His tackling does need to be refined that's for sure. Being brought up in League his skill set is far greater than most in Union so i expect him to slot in rather easily. He won't get the ball anywhere near as much so his concentration will have to be greater.

England have been weak at centre since Greenwood/Tindall and are crying out for a match winner in that position. Farrell at fly half is a pretty good goal kicker but a creator he is not, therefore more is required of the centres to do something. Twelvetrees falls way short.

I'm finding myself disagree with everything you say.

Tell me what you think Sam Burgess's diverse skill-set is. He'd likely be one of the least skilled centres in the English game. He runs hard at things and tackles hard. He's a prop forward in league so he rarely passes before contact and he never kicks...

 

[Maverick1987]

I'm finding myself disagree with everything you say.

Tell me what you think Sam Burgess's diverse skill-set is. He'd likely be one of the least skilled centres in the English game. He runs hard at things and tackles hard. He's a prop forward in league so he rarely passes before contact and he never kicks...

I agree with this ! And to say twelvetrees falls well short is really unfair to someone with less than 10 meaningful caps and 4 or 5 different centre partners in that time too

 

[Zed]

His tackling does need to be refined that's for sure. Being brought up in League his skill set is far greater than most in Union so i expect him to slot in rather easily. He won't get the ball anywhere near as much so his concentration will have to be greater.


.

Nah I disagree. The general standard of ball skills in league is poor, primarily because it's not required. Forwards rarely, if ever, pass the ball so I would imagine Burgess's passing skills would be pretty average, certainly not on a par with an international no 12, who should be as adept as passing as a flyhalf. I remember being suprised when Wendall Sailor came to union at how poor his passing was. Especially when fielding a high ball and having to pass to his fullback who was 20m infield. He couldn't pass off one side and had to turn to pass, he couldn't even spin pass properly.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Hot news off the block: http://www.rabbitohs.com.au/news/20...ess_from_final_two_years_of_nrl_contract.html

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Mental!
Think that should officially rule him out of the World Cup though - if Rabbitohs get to/near the final that's a, what, early/mid October end of season?
Move to Bath, bit of time to get the body right, he'll be learning his trade by early November.
7-8 months of playing isn't enough time to prove yourself, imo. Especially as they'd have to trial him a few places to see where he fits in (presumably in their 'A' side - might not play first team until gone Christmas).

 

[Draggs]

Mental!
Think that should officially rule him out of the World Cup though - if Rabbitohs get to/near the final that's a, what, early/mid October end of season?
Move to Bath, bit of time to get the body right, he'll be learning his trade by early November.
7-8 months of playing isn't enough time to prove yourself, imo. Especially as they'd have to trial him a few places to see where he fits in (presumably in their 'A' side - might not play first team until gone Christmas).

George North didn't make his club debut until September 2010 (Wales debut two months later). Granted, North was already playing rugby, but Sam is an experienced athlete so I wouldn't wholly rule him out. Unless he is complete kak, that is.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

George North didn't make his club debut until September 2010 (Wales debut two months later). Granted, North was already playing rugby, but Sam is an experienced athlete so I wouldn't wholly rule him out. Unless he is complete kak, that is.

Tuilagi was fast tracked into the 2011 side as well - I think the main factors with Burgess are:
a) He's not played union before (or if he has, not to anywhere near pro standard)
b) We've no idea where he'll play/where he's best suited. People say 12/13, but he might be terrible there and excel in the backrow etc.etc.

It's a big ask considering we've already got 36 as our starting 12, Barritt as our ousted 12 who Lancaster/Farrell love, and Eastmond in the EPS really pushing for a spot, Burrell shifted out to 13 and Tuilagi to come back from injury (and Tomkins, who is s**t, but Lancaster likes).

 

[Thingimubob]

Tuilagi was fast tracked into the 2011 side as well - I think the main factors with Burgess are:
a) He's not played union before (or if he has, not to anywhere near pro standard)
b) We've no idea where he'll play/where he's best suited. People say 12/13, but he might be terrible there and excel in the backrow etc.etc.

It's a big ask considering we've already got 36 as our starting 12, Barritt as our ousted 12 who Lancaster/Farrell love, and Eastmond in the EPS really pushing for a spot, Burrell shifted out to 13 and Tuilagi to come back from injury (and Tomkins, who is s**t, but Lancaster likes).

Where else would they play him though? No.8 is certainly a possibility, but England are already pretty sorted there between Vunipola and Morgan. No 6 is a possibility, but has he got the time to properly learn the breakdown and all the grunt work that the flankers have to do there? Plus could throw out the balance that England need to find in the backrow imo.

 

[Zed]

Where else would they play him though? No.8 is certainly a possibility, but England are already pretty sorted there between Vunipola and Morgan. No 6 is a possibility, but has he got the time to properly learn the breakdown and all the grunt work that the flankers have to do there? Plus could throw out the balance that England need to find in the backrow imo.

Yeah there's no way he could play anywhere in the backs, he simply does not have the ball skills. He could only really play backrow. He's got time to make the World Cup, there's a lot to pick up in the 1 year or so, but I would imagine he's already watching games and learning about union.