Sam Burgess Playing 6 Vs Newcastle

[LiRFCMatt]

Sam Burgess played 60 minutes at flanker. 9 carries, 9 tackles, 49m made, 3 turnovers. decent night's work in new role.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Sam Burgess played 60 minutes at flanker. 9 carries, 9 tackles, 49m made, 3 turnovers. decent night's work in new role.

Three turnovers an impressive stat there. Can anyone who's seen the game describe them? Jackals or choke tackle ripped balls, etc.

 

[chippieolamus]

Don't remember him jackaling at all, at least 2 were choke tackles (joint efforts with teammates but good nonetheless).

 

[ratsapprentice]

1 very impressive clean jackal (probably around 15-20mins in around the halfway line if you want to look for it), the other two were choke tackles.

 

[goodNumber10]

1 very impressive clean jackal (probably around 15-20mins in around the halfway line if you want to look for it), the other two were choke tackles.

Yeah, he tackled high, rode the tackle, got to ground then popped the ball out iirc.

 

[91jmay]

For balance I think he also missed two tackles from memory and was responsible for two turnovers. He had a good game though. His last 40 minutes in particular went well.

 

[Peat]

Only just caught the end of the half so I saw Burgess and Auterac smash Harris and he then ripped the ball in the middle of the park. Also that Devoto pass, is he maybe a bolter ? I keep thinking between him and Slade we have two great ball playing utility guys.

No. I thought he might bolt at the start of the season, but events have transpired otherwise. It's now too late and there are too many guys in front of him.

He is, of course, one of the great hopes of the post-RWC era, but if he ends him as more than a 12/13 at international level I'll be very surprised.

Sam Burgess played 60 minutes at flanker. 9 carries, 9 tackles, 49m made, 3 turnovers. decent night's work in new role.

You are aware that the TO stat on ESPN is for Turn Overs conceded, not Turn Overs made, right?

 

[Raggs]

He had 3 turnovers conceded, and 3 won.

Only saw the first half, but he seemed fairly comfortable, acting as a point and shoot missile is a bit more straight forward than 12. Everyone likes to think there's a massively more technical side to the pack, but at 12 he had to work in the breakdown anyway and the Bath coaches have said before that they feel Eastmond is one of the best guys they have technically over the ball since he was a blank slate with no bad habits. His decision making almost certainly can't be on HRHRH levels, but it will improve with gametime and coaching. For me though, if he genuinely wants to stand a chance at England selection, he needs to start collecting lineout ball. If we're not having a lineout jumper at 6, we may as well go with Ewers. And personally I'd take Haskell over Ewers for now.

June 2016 I think, too late for the summer tour, but in time for the AIs, Nathan Hughes will likely enter into the equation, and he can definitely take lineout ball. If he goes 8, it may well open the door for Ewers at 6, I also reckon that Billy V could realistically look at going at 6, given his massive workrate recently. That would also offer us some serious carrying power, with BV doing the tight work, and Hughes smashing the midfield as he loves to do.

 

[Amobokoboko]

Read it in the Times he would play backrower. But missed the game.

 

[goodNumber10]

You are aware that the TO stat on ESPN is for Turn Overs conceded, not Turn Overs made, right?

Think they were knock on's (his hands are strangely poor).

He deffo won the TO's

 

[Peat]

Was just double checking as I've lost count of how many times I've seen people make that mistake.

 

[ncurd]

Think they were knock one (his hands are strangely poor.

He deffo won the TO's

Not convinced his knock on before the try was a knock on and was given by the far side touch judge. He certainly made a pigs ear of catching it though.

 

[goodNumber10]

Not convinced his knock on before the try was a knock on and was given by the far side touch judge. He certainly made a pigs ear of catching it though.

it was absolutely fired into his chest though, horribly hard pass that close to contact.

on reflection i thought he went well for a first hit out at 6... obviously we were watching him specifically but lots of regular 6's don't have that level of impact, my only concern is he might actually be too small for an effective union forward (he just doesn't seem to have the body shape for it if that makes sense).

 

[ncurd]

I don't think anyone has ever referee to Burgess as small...

All in all I was encouraged by what I saw 6 can be a bit of 'quiet' roll even when performing brilliantly, he'll improve. Certainly get another run out there for Irish I suspect. Question is what happens once Hooper is back from injury and he apparently has a minor ****le.

 

[goodNumber10]

I don't think anyone has ever referee to Burgess as small...

All in all I was encouraged by what I saw 6 can be a bit of 'quiet' roll even when performing brilliantly, he'll improve. Certainly get another run out there for Irish I suspect. Question is what happens once Hooper is back from injury and he apparently has a minor ****le.

yeah, i know he's a big guy, but you slot him alongside Louw, Fearns et al he isn't huge - he seems to have the body shape/Muscle Mass of a centre (which makes sense with his league background)
@ratsapprentice will be more clued up on his size and stats... he has a whole dossier on each player for these kind of things

 

[Peat]

He's 6'4" or 6'5" and 18 stone and a bit iirc. Which puts him at a higher muscle mass than most union forwards.

If he's too small to make an impact as a union forward, I don't understand the world anymore.

 

[goodNumber10]

He's 6'4" or 6'5" and 18 stone and a bit iirc. Which puts him at a higher muscle mass than most union forwards.

If he's too small to make an impact as a union forward, I don't understand the world anymore.

yeah, you're right he's heavier than both Robshaw and Tom Wood.

I dunno what it is then but he just doesn't look as physically powerful as other back rowers to me - watching the game i got the impression Louw was bigger but according to wiki it's burgess by nearly a stone, but also we shouldn't get muscle mass confused with weight (not that burgess is going to be a tubby underneath all that).

Anyway, not really sure where this conversation is going, i think i just felt he looked a bit under powered yesterday compared to other 6's/8's.

 

[ratsapprentice]

If Tom Croft and Tom Wood can play as international flankers then Burgess' size is no obstacle whatsoever.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I think maybe what you're seeing, @goodNumber10, is that he hasn't really been smashing the snot out of defenders like we expected? He's winning the gainline and taking out two defenders but has he ever bounced off a defender, like Leroy Houston did to a couple of players running back from taking a kickoff in the second half, for example? He's big, he's powerful, and he wins a lot of ground making tackles, and he looks to be powerfully effective in the rucks when he gets it right, he also seemed to be involved in a couple of driving mauls today - he shows his power in every area except for the "smashing through defenders like they're not there" that we were all kind of expecting.

I thought he was good last night - not as good as BT made out (inevitably) but apart from a bit of butterfingers he seemed to do everything pretty well - as someone said, 6 isn't always a "big impact" position even when playing well, and plenty of experienced Prem blindsides have had less impact than that on a game without playing especially badly. I always thought back row would be his position personally, and I feel slightly more confident in that assertion now. Obviously still a long way to go, though. He does need to improve his carrying, it feels weird to be saying it but I honestly think that's the one area where he's disappointing.

 

[goodNumber10]

I think maybe what you're seeing, @goodNumber10, is that he hasn't really been smashing the snot out of defenders like we expected? He's winning the gainline and taking out two defenders but has he ever bounced off a defender, like Leroy Houston did to a couple of players running back from taking a kickoff in the second half, for example? He's big, he's powerful, and he wins a lot of ground making tackles, and he looks to be powerfully effective in the rucks when he gets it right, he also seemed to be involved in a couple of driving mauls today - he shows his power in every area except for the "smashing through defenders like they're not there" that we were all kind of expecting.

I thought he was good last night - not as good as BT made out (inevitably) but apart from a bit of butterfingers he seemed to do everything pretty well - as someone said, 6 isn't always a "big impact" position even when playing well, and plenty of experienced Prem blindsides have had less impact than that on a game without playing especially badly. I always thought back row would be his position personally, and I feel slightly more confident in that assertion now. Obviously still a long way to go, though. He does need to improve his carrying, it feels weird to be saying it but I honestly think that's the one area where he's disappointing.

Yep, think that pretty much sums it up.