Salary Cap Investigations

[Abraxaz]

It gives the club and it players time to participate this season without any major structural changes rather than insta banning them.

Lets do some statistical over de-facto relegation

Scenario 1
Max point avaliable are 95 if they all those 69 points which last season was good enough for a playoff place!

Scenario 2
Saracens this season have 9 points, last year they got 78 points. So roughly they are capable of getting 69 points more this season which would put them on 43 points which would of put them in 10th last season above two teams and a good 12 points above last.

Scenario 3
3 points per game so far 31 points total at same rate which would equal Newcastle last season so relegated.

Scenario 4
3.54 points per game last season carry that on 41.26 points this equal to 11th last season.


The points deduction has clearly been formulated to not make staying up a guarantee but with their current squad they are capable of staying up if they play as well as they have been.

Yes but those stats are with a full available team. Currently of the 19 games left in the season the players that played for England can only play for 7 of those and so far the replacements aren't exactly doing well.

If the prl had said it was a automatic relegation then they would have a massive issue on their hands, as wray the sort of guy that would pay the small fine and release the majority of the prime squad that wouldn't follow the team into the championship league. So you'd have lots of players out of a contract and no one with money to afford them.

I'm pretty sure if halfway through the season it looks definite that saracens are going down then hell either just play academy players as they will be the ones that stick around for the lower table.

Will probably put a bet on leinster to win the cup this year.

From my rudimentary and probably wrong Maths. Saracens get around 77 points over the past few years, which works out about to 71% of the points on offer. Now if you figure that into the games left that is 66.5 points, since they are on -26 at the moment that get's 40.5 points. I looked the past few years and that is nowhere near enough to get them relegated, positions in the table vary but you would expect them to finish 9/10th. Last year the bottom few teams were quite high scoring, if you go back a number of seasons no other 11th place team has got over 40 bar last year.

With a full squad. Imagine only having your best players for 7 games...

 

[Every Time Ref]

There's a lot of assumption that they play at a similar level this season that they have previously.

As I said before, surely all of this will have a massive impact on the players off the pitch and they will extend to on the pitch. I would be surprised to see them pick up points at the same rate they have in previous years, so yeah I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them finish bottom.

 

[ncurd]

With a full squad. Imagine only having your best players for 7 games...

You keep repeating this "7 game stat" can I ask where you plucked it from?

 

[ncurd]

There's a lot of assumption that they play at a similar level this season that they have previously.

As I said before, surely all of this will have a massive impact on the players off the pitch and they will extend to on the pitch. I would be surprised to see them pick up points at the same rate they have in previous years, so yeah I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them finish bottom.

Honestly I couldn't give an f if they make it or not I'd gladly see them go down. I'm just pointing out they've been given a difficult task but not an insurmountable one.

 

[ncurd]

...psst.... I think the 7 game stat is misinterpreting Sarries have 7 England players....

 

[TRF_Olyy]

...psst.... I think the 7 game stat is misinterpreting Sarries have 7 England players....

Nah, Sanderson said post game the other week that Sarries RWC players will only play 7 regular season (prem) games.



Also I notice that Sarries are back up to 4th in the table. I bet they manage to lawyer their way out of this.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I think it's that the internationals will only be available for 7 games when you factor in 6 nations etc. but all the other teams are in the same boat.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Honestly I couldn't give an f if they make it or not I'd gladly see them go down. I'm just pointing out they've been given a difficult task but not an insurmountable one.

Oh no me neither. I just felt people are assuming they'll play like the Saracens we know and "love", I don't think they will.

I'll nail my colours to the mast, I'd rather they went down. And if Bath are found guilty of the same, I'd ... well I won't be "glad" but I'd acknowledge it's deserved

 

[ncurd]

Nah, Sanderson said post game the other week that Sarries RWC players will only play 7 regular season (prem) games.



Also I notice that Sarries are back up to 4th in the table. I bet they manage to lawyer their way out of this.

Ah fair enough, well all teams are in that position shouldn't sign so many internationals then!

I think thats the lawyers saying official tables can't reflect it until all appeals are done. Probably got modified by overzealous web dev.

 

[ncurd]

I'll nail my colours to the mast, I'd rather they went down. And if Bath are found guilty of the same, I'd ... well I won't be "glad" but I'd acknowledge it's deserved

Same I'll be more angry with our owners and management than the RFU.

 

[Abraxaz]

...psst.... I think the 7 game stat is misinterpreting Sarries have 7 England players....

Playets can only play a maximum of 30 games a season, so far they've played 7 will have another 5 in six nations. Leaving 7 left in the premiership and potential 5 + in the European championship.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Playets can only play a maximum of 30 games a season, so far they've played 7 will have another 5 in six nations. Leaving 7 left in the premiership and potential 5 + in the European championship.

Your maths is way off here...

 

[Goodey]

They cheated, they got caught, end of story.

As long as any similar indiscretions by other clubs receive proportionate penalties then I will find it difficult to be at all sympathetic.

Very much doubt it's end of story. Does anyone think this stuff is all the product of Nigel Wray's ingenuity? Or do we think it's the practise of players' agents and club's lawyers that sell their methods to anyone?

I'll believe Saracens could be doing it egregiously more than anyone else. That'd be why they were investigated. I just don't believe we live in a universe where there's one one villainous party engaging in nefarious loopholing and the rest of them are all squeaky clean. That's not how any industry works and there's no reason sport is any different. It's not Wacky Races.

Sad day for English rugby. Pretty **** week all things considered.

 

[ncurd]

Your maths is way off here...

18 games left
6 Euro
=12
playoff (max 3

9 games remaining....

And if I were Sarries I'd save them for prem games and write off euro's.

 

[Abraxaz]

18 games left
6 Euro
=12
playoff (max 3

9 games remaining....

And if I were Sarries I'd save them for prem games and write off euro's.

And mandatory breaks during and after tournaments? Each player will miss 6 games in the tournament or more due to breaks and training squads.
Plus we only have 19 games left and non of the English squad in the tea should be entered due to break.

 

[ncurd]

And mandatory breaks during and after tournaments? Each player will miss 6 games in the tournament or more due to breaks and training squads.
Plus we only have 19 games left and non of the English squad in the tea should be entered due to break.

Look you have to show your workings, if you say they'll only play 7 times this season then quote a rule about only being allowed 30 games but the maths show they can play more than 7 games you have explain how. Not just say things that players will miss games.

You've already been proven spectacularly wrong at can only get to Newcastle points. So I'm sorry if I don't take your word for it.

Now if Olyy tells me something I believe him because he clearly gets these things right.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Look you have to show your workings, if you say they'll only play 7 times this season then quote a rule about only being allowed 30 games but the maths show they can play more than 7 games you have explain how. Not just say things that players will miss games.

You've already been proven spectacularly wrong at can only get to Newcastle points. So I'm sorry if I don't take your word for it.

Now if Olyy tells me something I believe him because he clearly gets these things right.

The seven game thing has been going around quite a bit. I believe Saracens have said they will only play their internationals in seven league games but they will play all European games. I wonder if the point deduction has changed their plans.

 

[ncurd]

The seven game thing has been going around quite a bit. I believe Saracens have said they will only play their internationals in seven league games but they will play all European games. I wonder if the point deduction has changed their plans.

I know that's what Olyy said just is someone says something different I want to understand how they got to that conclusion.

I'll be amaxed if they don't just entirely focus on the Premiership

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

They could rotate the internationals for the four Heineken Cup pool matches against Munster and Racing and still sneak through as well. Ospreys aren't good at rugby. Definitely two or three games to free up without throwing the towel in anyway.

 

[Abraxaz]

Look you have to show your workings, if you say they'll only play 7 times this season then quote a rule about only being allowed 30 games but the maths show they can play more than 7 games you have explain how. Not just say things that players will miss games.

You've already been proven spectacularly wrong at can only get to Newcastle points. So I'm sorry if I don't take your word for it.

Now if Olyy tells me something I believe him because he clearly gets these things right.

Here for 30 matches

They have played 7 games, they now have a minimum of 2 week mandatory rest period. That will put the remaining premiership games at 17 before they play.
They then have the six nations, squad build up is usually 2 weeks in advance of six nations plus games and 1 week off and mandatory 1-2 weeks off depending upon how many games. So that's 9-10 games off from the premiership season which if they take the required dates puts them down to 7 possible premiership rugby games they can play in.

Now if they dont take the rest periods I.e. opt out they could manage to appear in 12 games of the premiership but that risks fines over player wealth fare.

But obviously I know **** all so he ho