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Salary Cap Investigations

How do they have an unfair advantage in Europe?
I know they havnt broken rules in europe technically. But should a prem tesm get knocked out in the pool stages by a team that is only that strong because of breaching the cap it is unfair.

No idea how to rectify this and i dont think we should kick them out of it tbh i just think its abit unfair.

As its a different competition does the salary cap still stand for prem teams?
 
Sitting here uncomfortably as a Bath fan. Probably getting away with it because, despite all our big name internationals, we have been pants for ages.
If we have been we deserve it, our issue is going to be we are too shite to get over the points deduction.
 
Impossible to stay up?
They would've finished 10th last season with 35pts knocked off.

All the other stuff is irrelevant because:
They. Cheated.



Seen talk that Quins and Bath are both under investigation for investing in players private companies.
Yes with nearly a full squad.
They can only use their international for 7 games this season not counting the number of games they will be off for 6 nations.

Its death sentence, can you imagine being in the club knowing no matter what you do or how you play your gonna get relegated.

They will get relegated they are already played 3 games only 19 left. Even if they win all 19 that's only gonna put them at 31 which was the same as Newcastle last year. And they have to do it with 7 key players missing for the majority of the season.

The prl wanted to relegate them but knew it would cause a mass exodus to france for players like mako and billy, krius
 
The prl wanted to relegate them but knew it would cause a mass exodus to france for players like mako and billy, krius
If those players want to play for England they won't go to France.....

Point deduction is fairly standard in these circumstances other than straight relegation.
 
Probably shouldn't have cheated, then.
I didn't say dont cheat and I've said the fine was correct, what I said was the point deduction Is way over the top and aimed at not punishing the club but destroying it.

Its calculated to put them out of the premiership unless they win every game and get a bonus point. Whilst also enforcing it during the season when they cant play most of there players. Not like they new about it last year or anything.

Just think it'll destroy the club, its fan base and the academy which has produced alot of English internationals.

What should have been done, is the fine, stripped of premiership ***les, and have the books monitored by an outside company to make sure there within the rules.

What we have now is a team that will have no morale, players leaving the country as no one can afford them and a academy in ashes. Awesome.

Oh a no English team getting out of the pools in either the championship or challenge cup.

Woot woot
 
If those players want to play for England they won't go to France...
Would this not come under the special/exceptional circumstances rule? based on the fact that Sarries may have to lose England players and no one can afford to keep them in the prem having already spent up to their budget.


And if Bath, Quins and whoever else is caught breaking the rules then you can scrap the moving abroad rule altogether, all bets are off..
 
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They cheated, they got caught, end of story.

As long as any similar indiscretions by other clubs receive proportionate penalties then I will find it difficult to be at all sympathetic.
 
Is not playing the internationals because it's a world cup year and resting them for their own welfare?
 
Would this not come under the special/exceptional circumstances rule? based on the fact that Sarries may have to lose England players and no one can afford to keep them in the prem having already spent up to their budget
Possibly but only if they sign short term deals with a view to return the UK. Up to EJ but considering the current zero tolerance policy and its effectiveness I doubt they'd get much time out there. More likely a player or two that might be phased out would look to go there. However I'm unsure which Sarries international that would apply to.

I imagine most if not all will play for Sarries this year with a view to change clubs in between seasons.

An enterprising English club below the cap might make some feelers right now.
 
Where are the sarries fans at? Love to hear your opinions.
As I said before, do the crime do the time. It's a shame, hopefully it doesn't break the club because it's academy is now very impressive and bringing through good internationals. As others have said we should've used more of them instead of going out for the big names.
 
Lol, suppose the Kieran Marmion move is off so? Sarries are well well capable of producing players through their academy, so the rule breaking is..... Poor. Fair play to Premiership rugby, they've gone absolutely nuclear on Sarries, whacking them with a salary cap sized fine and a huge points loss. They've been made an example of to other teams I'd have to imagine are doing the same.
Do Sarries go all in on Europe now, or the opposite?
 
What should have been done, is the fine, stripped of premiership ***les, and have the books monitored by an outside company to make sure there within the rules.
While I feel no particular sympathy for them, it does seem silly that the punishment is de facto relegation without them just being honest and saying it. Maybe stripping any and all ***les from the era they investigated, and then a points deduction that isn't clearly designed to pin them at the very bottom?

I always wonder if this doesn't go on everywhere in every circumstance... If some rich dude owns a team, how easy is it for him to be like, "Hey mate, here's a hundred grand, go have a party"? How can these leagues actually be policing all the books?
 
Even if it is a de facto relegation*, who cares it's obviously a severe breach rather than a punishment being picked out of your arse. It was either that or let them play out the season, and probably win, and then relegate them next season. That's just an extra trophy they'd win breaking the rules.

You'd imagine they have to go after the prem ahead of Europe.

*And it's not, a 35 point deduction wouldn't have relegated them any of the last 5 years and that's only as far as I checked.
 
While I feel no particular sympathy for them, it does seem silly that the punishment is de facto relegation without them just being honest and saying it.
It gives the club and it players time to participate this season without any major structural changes rather than insta banning them.

Lets do some statistical over de-facto relegation

Scenario 1
Max point avaliable are 95 if they all those 69 points which last season was good enough for a playoff place!

Scenario 2
Saracens this season have 9 points, last year they got 78 points. So roughly they are capable of getting 69 points more this season which would put them on 43 points which would of put them in 10th last season above two teams and a good 12 points above last.

Scenario 3
3 points per game so far 31 points total at same rate which would equal Newcastle last season so relegated.

Scenario 4
3.54 points per game last season carry that on 41.26 points this equal to 11th last season.


The points deduction has clearly been formulated to not make staying up a guarantee but with their current squad they are capable of staying up if they play as well as they have been.
 
From my rudimentary and probably wrong Maths. Saracens get around 77 points over the past few years, which works out about to 71% of the points on offer. Now if you figure that into the games left that is 66.5 points, since they are on -26 at the moment that get's 40.5 points. I looked the past few years and that is nowhere near enough to get them relegated, positions in the table vary but you would expect them to finish 9/10th. Last year the bottom few teams were quite high scoring, if you go back a number of seasons no other 11th place team has got over 40 bar last year.
 

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