[RWC2023 SF2] England vs South Africa (21/10/2023)

[BrokenWing]

Forgive my ignorance, but his knee is on the ground before the ball goes in, so why does he wait so long to give that decision?

 

[ncurd]

Forgive my ignorance, but his knee is on the ground before the ball goes in, so why does he wait so long to give that decision?

This is definitely a baffling thing, the ball is already in and available and the scrums in failing when BOK actually makes the call.

He probably missed this first knee and there is a second as the scrum is collapsing.

I wouldn't focus of the scrum it might be the wrong call it might not be but its understandable considering how badly England's scrum was going he'd make that call.

His changing of he was reffing the breakdown after that, was far more egregious. As was the 22 call. ?Daly? also clearly knocked the ball on once though and despite him being miles away he called it backwards. So its not like he wasn't **** for both teams.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

From what I've read, I'm inclined to think a racial slur wasn't used and it was misheard. However the refusal to shake hands at the end was petty. Mbonambi must know full well what that phrase can sound like in English and the possibility of being misheard so you'd think he'd explain what was said and chalk it up as a misunderstanding, after all how would he react if he heard something that sounded like a racial slur in a language he wasn't fluent in?

In the absence of conclusive evidence that Mbonambi was clearly directing his comments at Curry when he said those words, I think we need to have the benefit of the doubt. As also mentioned, the SA team has plenty of white players and the country has a history of racism, making racist remarks in that team, even if targeted at a non-SA player, would be pretty stupid.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

In among all the scrum technicalities the key learning is to manage the ref and be on the right side of him. If he thinks you're the weaker scrum, well guess what?

 

[BrokenWing]

In among all the scrum technicalities the key learning is to manage the ref and be on the right side of him. If he thinks you're the weaker scrum, well guess what?

I understand all that, but if you are the weaker scrum what can you do to be on the right side of the ref?

 

[ncurd]

TBF I've not seen the English scrum fail so badly since that infamous game with Mr. Walsh in 2013.

Regardless of how poor a scrum is I think if the refereee is giving penalties every time he's lost control and he clearly wasn't interested in communicating with England.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

TBF I've not seen the English scrum fail so badly since that infamous game with Mr. Walsh in 2013.

Regardless of how poor a scrum is I think if the refereee is giving penalties every time he's lost control and he clearly wasn't interested in communicating with England.

Against Ireland SA had a few calls of "use it" instead of him calling the penalty even if we were the more dominant scrum. Maybe it was probably just that vs Ireland the scrum didn't go down as much and there was less movement. I'd be surprised if a lot of it wasn't just O'Keefe so preconceptions. Anyway, glad to not have him in the final at least. We had to play all 3 our major games with him in command. It and the fallout is tiring.

 

[unrated]

This South African team is anything but natural.
Being refereed twice by Ben O'keefe is not normal.
They played two matches of high physical intensity and yet they always found the resources to hold on.
The specter of doping resurfaces especially when we look a little closer at the development of muscle mass in a few weeks of the Stormers player: DAMIAN WILLEMSE
Personally, the South African players are a step above the All Blacks in terms of repetition in physical efforts and power. They are tireless.

Ah got to love the aftermatch accusations and slander of the Springboks after these tight games. Same guy that said a SH ref cant ref a NH vs SH match, thank Elon Musk for starting a mars colony then.

 

[Amiga500]

Corbiserio in the Times also echoes the penalty for the knee on the floor saying at least this was consistent with the one BoK gave earlier against Kitshoff. But where he disagrees with BoK is "… scrummaging across on the angle" which IHO was due to Koch and the scrum going sideways with no forward momentum for the BOKs scrum.

But Koch being at an angle is a result of Genge dropping to a knee, extending Koch on his outside so he will naturally come around to point inward and eventually tuck under the scrum....?

 

[Amiga500]

Ah got to love the aftermatch accusations and slander of the Springboks after these tight games. Same guy that said a SH ref cant ref a NH vs SH match, thank Elon Musk for starting a mars colony then.

IRB need to buy an island exactly on the equator and breed referees there.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Just clone Nigel Owens for all pro rugby. About, what, 50 of him? Not that he is perfect but I don't know anyone who doesn't like him.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Not that he is perfect but I don't know anyone who doesn't like him.

You can tell SA only recently joined NH rugby!

He was good up until he started selling mugs with his one liners on then got exponentially worse each year until he retired as a genuinely rubbish international referee

 

[ncurd]

Just clone Nigel Owens for all pro rugby. About, what, 50 of him? Not that he is perfect but I don't know anyone who doesn't like him.

I thought general opinion of him was towards the end he was more interested in one-liners and after dinner speaking and started to make more blunders.

I just want a non-English Wayne Barnes....I'll settle for one international referee who is as good as him but isn't English.

Barnes the opposite of Owens who grew in statue with experience.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

But Koch being at an angle is a result of Genge dropping to a knee, extending Koch on his outside so he will naturally come around to point inward and eventually tuck under the scrum....?

Well Corbs puts it down to Koch going very high before the bind and turned in before the ref said "set" rather than it being down to Genge dropping the knee. Saying 90% of the time tight-heads don't engage like that as they know it's not going to go well.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

You can tell SA only recently joined NH rugby!

He was good up until he started selling mugs with his one liners on then got exponentially worse each year until he retired as a genuinely rubbish international referee

He also never carded people. Cynical fouls 3m away from goal line and he'd be completely okay with it. I remember on one broadcast they said he had given out half the amount of yellow cards as other pro## refs.

His career was essentially built off the fact the welsh regions sucked so he'd always be in the running for Heineken finals and semi-finals.

 

[Zac_ETNZ]

I thought general opinion of him was towards the end he was more interested in one-liners and after dinner speaking and started to make more blunders.

I just want a non-English Wayne Barnes....I'll settle for one international referee who is as good as him but isn't English.

Barnes the opposite of Owens who grew in statue with experience.

Barnes bottled it during the "37" phases Ireland threw at the All Blacks line, with at least 3 clear penalties for head-rolls and legitimate steals (Savea's 5 metres in front of a linesman) that he never called. The Whitelock penalty was so blatant he took a while to call it - probably after consulting a QC!!

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

IRB need to buy an island exactly on the equator and breed referees there.

I am looking forward to referees born in Equatorial Guinea

 

[Herman the German]

I am looking forward to referees born in Equatorial Guinea

Macapa in Brazil, 300k inhabitants, directly on the equator - ideal location for a training camp and we can develop Brazilian rugby that way.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

I am looking forward to referees born in Equatorial Guinea

I do think a side aim of South Africa splitting themselves between hemispheres was essentially to elevate their referees in the eyes of world rugby. The only issue is that they joined URC where referee development seems to be zero.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

@TRF_Olyy. Look what Marler did to your boy.