[RWC2023 SF2] England vs South Africa (21/10/2023)

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

True; citing officer can bring a charge without a complaint from England.

World Rugby now confirmed it is being reviewed

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Hope there is a swift resolution to this. By Wednesday latest. Don't want this dragging on in the build up to the final.

 

[Which Tyler]

oh I agree SA we're in ascendancy (well in the scrum, I didn't really see it elsewhere). And I know and understand why BOK got conned.

I was more referring to in that last passage of play after SA took the lead with the call he decided he wasn't blowing up for SA.

Still it's not worth loosing sleep over we had plenty of the opposite calls in the match which he got wrong. Still second week in a row hes made material mistakes especially in the dying minuites and meant to be one the top refs.

I'm not an arrived Englishman I'm more annoyed with out own mistakes that cost 13 points (BV and OF). He made far bigger blunders against the French.

Agreed. BO'K was a bit ****, but no bias*, and his shittiness didn't really swing anything, and most of his misses were the sort of thing that gets missed all the time, rather than clear and obvious howlers (maybe the exception of hands on the floor for the last one, but that's more likely my bias and being in the dying minutes, than being particularly clear and obvious).
As you say, BillyV cost us 10+ points on his own, just from being on the pitch, whilst OF cost us 3 for being a petulant oik.

The anger with BO'K is for his internal inconsistency. He reff.d Fra v Uru and SA v Ire completely differently to each other; then he did SA v Fra the same as he'd reff.d SA previously (but not Fra - who can't have known whether they were coming or going) - and then switched back for this one (which must have confused the boks).


*ETA: I also don't think he was biased in the QF - it's just that the way he decided to ref that game significantly favoured one side over the other.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Former Ulster, Munster, Sharks and Springbok prop BJ Botha chimed in on the scrum penalty at the end. As an experienced prop, who won a World Cup playing that position, it seems like a good guy to explain this.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Just in case anyone was wondering what the most important stakeholders think...

 

[ncurd]

Former Ulster, Munster, Sharks and Springbok prop BJ Botha chimed in on the scrum penalty at the end. As an experienced prop, who won a World Cup playing that position, it seems like a good guy to explain this.

Oh the knees definitely there and BOK was looking at that and he'd been calling it all game.

I'd suggest Botha looks at the overhead before the knee drops though.

 

[ncurd]

Honestly its another game where it angers me that scrums are used for penalties rather than restarts. Faf puts the ball in (late), its available get on with it (this was how it was being done in the Prem a few seasons back).

SA use of the mark to generate penalties in two games now also worries me.

This is nothing new for me I've been saying for a long time a lot of scrum penalties should just be a free kicks that can't be taken as a scrum. I think once teams stop seeing scrums as a way to win penalties we'd see a lot more completed scrums. I don't why WR seam completely uninterested in fixing it.

 

[Stade Rochelais]

This South African team is anything but natural.
Being refereed twice by Ben O'keefe is not normal.
They played two matches of high physical intensity and yet they always found the resources to hold on.
The specter of doping resurfaces especially when we look a little closer at the development of muscle mass in a few weeks of the Stormers player: DAMIAN WILLEMSE
Personally, the South African players are a step above the All Blacks in terms of repetition in physical efforts and power. They are tireless.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Oh the knees definitely there and BOK was looking at that and he'd been calling it all game.

I'd suggest Botha looks at the overhead before the knee drops though.

Wasn't the overhead view of Koch angled inside, after the knee went down?

 

[HamJan]

Wish World Rugby would change penalties to 2 points, same as the conversion for a try. It'll stop this boring kickfest.

No it wouldn't, it would encourage defending teams to stop their opponents by any means at all. It would become reasonable to risk the opposition kicking two points rather than concede seven.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Pouring over single frames of incidents like this, days after the fact, is weak sauce tbh

Scrums are a mess at the best of times
We were getting ****** up all second half, there'd already been multiple resets, we'd been warned for going to ground - even if it was a split second of the knee touching the floor he'd been warned not to do it multiple times, but still did

 

[Wasps92]

The call for the mark was a ******* joke mind.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

This South African team is anything but natural.
Being refereed twice by Ben O'keefe is not normal.
They played two matches of high physical intensity and yet they always found the resources to hold on.
The specter of doping resurfaces especially when we look a little closer at the development of muscle mass in a few weeks of the Stormers player: DAMIAN WILLEMSE
Personally, the South African players are a step above the All Blacks in terms of repetition in physical efforts and power. They are tireless.

I'm salty from the weekend so shall also start shouting random doping allegations out mid match on Saturday.

BUNCH OF DOPING CHEATS ALL OF THEM.

ESPECIALLY FAF, NO WAY THAT HAIR IS NATURAL

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

This South African team is anything but natural.
Being refereed twice by Ben O'keefe is not normal.
They played two matches of high physical intensity and yet they always found the resources to hold on.
The specter of doping resurfaces especially when we look a little closer at the development of muscle mass in a few weeks of the Stormers player: DAMIAN WILLEMSE
Personally, the South African players are a step above the All Blacks in terms of repetition in physical efforts and power. They are tireless.

One of the most memorable and exciting games in rugby history, and this is its legacy on TRF. French fans accusing South Africa of doping.

 

[ncurd]

Bongi Mbonambi: World Rugby to review South Africa star's alleged use of racial slur

World Rugby confirms it will formally review Bongi Mbonambi's alleged use of discriminatory language towards England's Tom Curry.

www.bbc.com

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Bongi Mbonambi: World Rugby to review South Africa star's alleged use of racial slur

World Rugby confirms it will formally review Bongi Mbonambi's alleged use of discriminatory language towards England's Tom Curry.

www.bbc.com

That's the right move. Reviewing this is the only way we can get any sort of conclusion to this. Regardless of what happened, a review is needed.

There are essentially 3 scenarios here:

1. Mbonambi used a racial slur
2. Mbonambi didn't use a racial slur but Curry misinterpreted something that was said
3. Curry made it up

 

[ncurd]

That's the right move. Reviewing this is the only way we can get any sort of conclusion to this. Regardless of what happened, a review is needed.

There are essentially 3 scenarios here:

1. Mbonambi used a racial slur
2. Mbonambi didn't use a racial slur but Curry misinterpreted something that was said
3. Curry made it up

There's another factor equally important, what did BOK do? did he follow the correct procedures.

He may have spoken at half time (I don't know what the protocol if for refs to speak to teams at half time).

I ask this because he appears to have done sweet **** all.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Former Ulster, Munster, Sharks and Springbok prop BJ Botha chimed in on the scrum penalty at the end. As an experienced prop, who won a World Cup playing that position, it seems like a good guy to explain this.

Corbiserio in the Times also echoes the penalty for the knee on the floor saying at least this was consistent with the one BoK gave earlier against Kitshoff. But where he disagrees with BoK is "… scrummaging across on the angle" which IHO was due to Koch and the scrum going sideways with no forward momentum for the BOKs scrum.

Wasn't the overhead view of Koch angled inside, after the knee went down?

Yes.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

2. Mbonambi didn't use a racial slur but Curry misinterpreted something that was said

This seems by far the most likely IMO

 

[Jer1cho]

Corbiserio in the Times also echoes the penalty for the knee on the floor saying at least this was consistent with the one BoK gave earlier against Kitshoff. But where he disagrees with BoK is "… scrummaging across on the angle" which IHO was due to Koch and the scrum going sideways with no forward momentum for the BOKs scrum.

I don't know if I 100% agree with it being Koch who scrummed inwards. Seems impossible to say that looking at this angle. The very nature of a loosehead being on the outside of the opposite tighthead means its far easier to scrum in for the LH as opposed to the TH. Am I wrong here? I just feel its so hard to say that when it looks like this in real time.