[RWC2023 QF3] England vs Fiji (15/10/2023)

[Scotty]

Did Ford get on today?

 

[BrokenWing]

No

 

[NickBD]

It's the biggest tournament in our sport and England are in the semi finals of it, you'd think we'd just been kicked from the group. People talk about context yeah England haven't been great and Bothwick probably isn't good enough but who cares semi final man I'm here for it.

I get people want change but if England got kicked early from the group or an embarrassing QF to Fiji, imo I doubt Borthwick gets sacked anyway so I doubt change happens if either of of those 2 things happen.

 

[Wichita]

It's the biggest tournament in our sport and England are in the semi finals of it, you'd think we'd just been kicked from the group. People talk about context yeah England haven't been great and Bothwick probably isn't good enough but who cares semi final man I'm here for it.

I get people want change but if England got kicked early from the group or an embarrassing QF to Fiji, imo I doubt Borthwick gets sacked anyway so I doubt change happens if either of of those 2 things happen.

Well maybe you'll be flattened by SA or torn apart by the French, but this has happened before, so I doubt change happens if either of of those 2 things happen.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

It's the biggest tournament in our sport and England are in the semi finals of it, you'd think we'd just been kicked from the group. People talk about context yeah England haven't been great and Bothwick probably isn't good enough but who cares semi final man I'm here for it.

I get people want change but if England got kicked early from the group or an embarrassing QF to Fiji, imo I doubt Borthwick gets sacked anyway so I doubt change happens if either of of those 2 things happen.

England fans are notoriously hard to please regardless of the sport. I think it's the performance that counts as well as the win, which is why a lot of England fans will still not be happy. Yes, semis, but lucky with the pool and getting Fiji. The performances v them and Samoa were not good, but neither has last 4 years really.

You go to a RWC to win not to say oh well semis is good. It is, and no expectation of England winning it. But if they get absolutely thumped by France or SA then fans will still turn on Borthwick even though this is far from a vintage team or squad.

 

[Which Tyler]

Going out in the semi-final was always Par for England.
You've got to do better than play poorly and reach par to make me happy - it's... neutral in terms of results; though performance and promise can range from exceptionally good through exceptionally bad. So far, the performance and promise has been... dispiriting but not horrendous.

Which leaves me feeling dispirited.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

So Dan has been in all 5 match day squads.

He was entrusted with a whole 55 minutes against Chile, otherwise got 8 against Arg, 6 against Jap, 0 v Samoa and 0 against Fiji.

Utterly ridiculous.

This guy has clearly been nominated as our number two number two and could be called upon in the 2nd minute of a RWC semi against the powder puff front rows and feeble line outs of France or the Boks. What sort of preparation has he had?

Quite apart from the confidence factor of Borthwick yelling from the rooftops "I DON'T TRUST YOU".

 

[Reiser99]

It's the biggest tournament in our sport and England are in the semi finals of it, you'd think we'd just been kicked from the group. People talk about context yeah England haven't been great and Bothwick probably isn't good enough but who cares semi final man I'm here for it.

I get people want change but if England got kicked early from the group or an embarrassing QF to Fiji, imo I doubt Borthwick gets sacked anyway so I doubt change happens if either of of those 2 things happen.

I know I'm being ridiculous, but if I entered a tennis tournament against 5 year olds and got to the SF I wouldn't be saying, look at me, I got to the semis. Yes, England are playing international teams, but in terms of the draw it is by far and away the easiest draw England have ever had. They have only had one toughish game and Argentina **** the bed. A semi-final with England's resources and the draw is just about par.

 

[Booboobang]

So Dan has been in all 5 match day squads.

He was entrusted with a whole 55 minutes against Chile, otherwise got 8 against Arg, 6 against Jap, 0 v Samoa and 0 against Fiji.

Utterly ridiculous.

This guy has clearly been nominated as our number two number two and could be called upon in the 2nd minute of a RWC semi against the powder puff front rows and feeble line outs of France or the Boks. What sort of preparation has he had?

Quite apart from the confidence factor of Borthwick yelling from the rooftops "I DON'T TRUST YOU".

Just goes back to borthwicks bizzare squad management.

2 starters not in the original squad.

Young hooker number 2 but no where near.

If you where going to have a guy sit on the bench I would of thought a vet would of been a better call for that.

 

[Jashay]

The highlights from the Rugby World Cup channel on YouTube have gone up, and the ***le is "Farrell overcomes Fiji fightback". I hope they were just going for alliteration, because that's pretty insulting to all the England players who, you know, actually contributed.

 

[NickBD]

I know I'm being ridiculous, but if I entered a tennis tournament against 5 year olds and got to the SF I wouldn't be saying, look at me, I got to the semis. Yes, England are playing international teams, but in terms of the draw it is by far and away the easiest draw England have ever had. They have only had one toughish game and Argentina **** the bed. A semi-final with England's resources and the draw is just about par.

Come on man you can't compare that to beating Argentina and Fiji in a WC. If you think I'm silly for being happy at a SF after the year England has had then I guess I'm silly.

Look yes England have been on the good side of the draw clearly. People will argue do the draw closer like 6 months earlier rather then years like football but I would argue same thing happens, look at England got France in the QF last year in Qatar when they probably would have beaten at least 5 of the other 6 QF teams. The luck of the draw is just part of any major sports world cup.

 

[IT157]

Come on man you can't compare that to beating Argentina and Fiji in a WC. If you think I'm silly for being happy at a SF after the year England has had then I guess I'm silly.

Look yes England have been on the good side of the draw clearly. People will argue do the draw closer like 6 months earlier rather then years like football but I would argue same thing happens, look at England got France in the QF last year in Qatar when they probably would have beaten at least 5 of the other 6 QF teams. The luck of the draw is just part of any major sports world cup.

I wonder if Kiwi fans would keep bringing up an easy draw? Did they in previous World Cups?

 

[IT157]

If we win the World Cup I guarantee English fans will still be bringing up the luck of the draw! Leave that to other fans whilst we revel in World Cup glory!

 

[BrokenWing]

If you where going to have a guy sit on the bench I would of thought a vet would of been a better call for that.

Who?

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

If the ball isn't going to hand, or even particularly close to the recipient, how confident can you be that the delay to backtrack, the clean pick-up, and the accelerating forwards again, is going to lead to a significant line-break?

Where in the laws does it say that a deliberate knock on needs to prevent what would have been a significant line break to result in a yellow card?

The laws actually state penalty but it a YC has been consistently and repeatedly been shown when this happens. I havent read all the inplementation guidances given to refs. Maybe mole can help?

Point is it was a knock on and it was deliberate, even by the refs admission. The rationale they used to avoid issuing a yc for it what is unheaed of. But hey, i am willing to be proven wrong. Give me one example of this happening before (the rationale give by the ref) and i will stand corrected

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Where in the laws does it say that a deliberate knock on needs to prevent what would have been a significant line break to result in a yellow card?

The laws actually state penalty but it a YC has been consistently and repeatedly been shown when this happens. I havent read all the inplementation guidances given to refs. Maybe mole can help?

Point is it was a knock on and it was deliberate, even by the refs admission. The rationale they used to avoid issuing a yc for it what is unheaed of. But hey, i am willing to be proven wrong. Give me one example of this happening before (the rationale give by the ref) and i will stand corrected

Wasnt there a game where Jonny May got a red card for a deliberate knock on?

 

[Reiser99]

Come on man you can't compare that to beating Argentina and Fiji in a WC. If you think I'm silly for being happy at a SF after the year England has had then I guess I'm silly.

Look yes England have been on the good side of the draw clearly. People will argue do the draw closer like 6 months earlier rather then years like football but I would argue same thing happens, look at England got France in the QF last year in Qatar when they probably would have beaten at least 5 of the other 6 QF teams. The luck of the draw is just part of any major sports world cup.

I wonder if Kiwi fans would keep bringing up an easy draw? Did they in previous World Cups?

I see your point, but when a draw stacks the top 5 ranked teams in one half that is not normal. No draw is perfect, but this was particularly bad.

If England go on to win the fair play. They may have been a bit lucky, but ultimately you have to beat the teams that beat everyone else. However, if England lose badly in the SF then it will just confirm that they didn't actually have a hard game and the first game against top opposition showed where they truly are.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Where in the laws does it say that a deliberate knock on needs to prevent what would have been a significant line break to result in a yellow card?

The laws actually state penalty but it a YC has been consistently and repeatedly been shown when this happens. I havent read all the inplementation guidances given to refs. Maybe mole can help?

Point is it was a knock on and it was deliberate, even by the refs admission. The rationale they used to avoid issuing a yc for it what is unheaed of. But hey, i am willing to be proven wrong. Give me one example of this happening before (the rationale give by the ref) and i will stand corrected

Where in the laws does it say the sanction for a deliberate knock on is a yellow card? https://www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/law/11

The widely accepted standard is that it is a yellow card if the deliberate knock on prevented a clear break or a try scoring opportunity. This isn't just for knock ons but any cynical play. Had Farrell not been there, the ball was going behind the Fijian player and would have simply landed on the ground. There is no case to be made that Fiji would have gained a significant advantage had the knock on not occurred. That is why there was no yellow. The rationale is also not unheard of, sorry but that is complete bullshit. This situation happens multiple times a year, frequently without any cards.

 

[Which Tyler]

Where in the laws does it say that a deliberate knock on needs to prevent what would have been a significant line break to result in a yellow card?

The laws actually state penalty but it a YC has been consistently and repeatedly been shown when this happens. I havent read all the inplementation guidances given to refs. Maybe mole can help?

Point is it was a knock on and it was deliberate, even by the refs admission. The rationale they used to avoid issuing a yc for it what is unheaed of. But hey, i am willing to be proven wrong. Give me one example of this happening before (the rationale give by the ref) and i will stand corrected

Well, at least it's not that I've missed something. You just think that penalty-only offences are consistently given as yellows, whilst I don't, and am using the justification ref,.s use in their discussions with TJs and TMOs.

Neither of us are wrong in law, we just have a different interpretation, presumably, based on watching different rugby matches. That's fine.

 

[BrokenWing]

To be fair, if yellows are given for cynical play then it doesn't really matter if the ball is or isn't going to hand does it? Does Farrell know that?

The cynical bit is him knocking the ball away not the situation that may occur if he didn't.