[RWC2023 QF2] Ireland vs New Zealand (14/10/2023)

[Umaga's Witness]

Couldn't disagree more. It's the pressure of knowing that the results have real consequences that makes knock out rugby special. There are plenty of other tournaments where you can see 'entertaining' rugby but this is to find the best in the world so the result becomes everything and a big part of that is doing the right things under the biggest pressure even if they're not 'spectacular'. People will remember last night far more than any number of open, consequence less 45-40 Rugby Championship games.

to each their own. I'd rather see the best rugby.

 

[LIONSxv]

OK, Sexton and Earls are retiring, and a number of others will probably not feature in four years' time. But there is also some youth in this current squad. How good will Sheehan be with another four years of experience? Plenty of lads coming through from the successful Under 20 team as well. The future is bright. The future is green.

POM, Aki, Murray, Kilcoyne are not going to be at next WC

Beirne,Furlong, Henderson, Lowe , Gibson park. Bealham will all around the 35/36 mark. So you would think that a few of them would be struggling to make another WC

Some of them are exceptional players that will very difficult to replace

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Whether Sexton nailed the penalty or a dropped goal doesn't change the fact that Ireland's attack was so predictable Stevie Wonder would have seen it!

Sexton was a traffic cop all night, shipping the ball on without making any attempt to run. Can't remember him doing anything to draw Cane or Frizell away from the defensive line.

Irelands attak on several occasions created opportunities, but through the anxiety of a World Cup quarterfinal they chose to go the conservative route.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Just woke up. It honestly feels like death or a break-up, waking up and having that brief moment of calmness before it hits you that it's gone, obviously less devastating than death but the only thing I can compare it too.

I think it's impossible to criticise that Ireland team, anyone who is is being a miserable ****. We had got it right 17 times in a row and just missed the mark. I didn't like the 8 in response to the haka, just ignore the dance (it looked for a second that we were going to stay in a huddle for it which I think would have been way better). We should have gave the ball to the backs when Kelleher got held up, it was a 5 on 3. Josh missed his must make tackle in about 3 years. And Crowley should have come on somewhere to add pace in the last 5, we were creating space but Jimmy was the only guy fresh enough to capitalise on it , needed one more. But they're tiny mistakes, mistakes comparable to South Africa, NZ and France made when we beat them in their run, it doesn't lessen the team or individuals when the margins are so fine. But do it at the right time, I'd swap the grand slam for a win last night for sure. Irish rugby isn't reacting well to big games with no second chances currently, whoever manages to crack that nut for us will go down as a legend.

Johnny Sexton was my childhood hero and it's no question for me that he's the greatest Irish player of all time, he played well yesterday which I'm happy about, he died with his boots on and it was fitting. I'm 28 and he has been my favourite player since I was 12. Rugby won't be the same for me without him. Thank you Johnny.

James Ryan turned out to be a massive massive loss. We don't lose the breakdown like we did with him on the pitch.

NZ were class and gracious, they're what rugby is about. I'm all on the France train now but please stop the Boks if it comes to it, I've had some nasty experiences with their guys in Paris.

Right now this feels like a sign off post for me, I just don't want to engage in it anymore on here but I don't think that will last. Hell after a few beers today I might be posting about England and Fiji. But if my presence gets lesser it's because this one broke me.

 

[miccloarch]

Haha, trash-talking is harmless, and in Cane's case had a degree of truth to it but it was meant to rattle his cage anyway.

I'm sure POM divides opinion. I imagine he's a great guy to have on your team and you'd rather be with him then against him but maybe he needs to learn from the likes of Kane and Kolisi on how to treat opponents with a bit of respect. I bet Sam Cane shook his hand and said well played and didn't rub his nose in it.

Different circumstances as well. O'Mahony's sledge was in the heat of the moment, not after the game when you shake hands.

AB culture is built on respect and discipline, which is admirable, but that doesn't stop some of them from bottling it all up inside before doing stupid things like partying past curfew before a QF, having sex in toilets, bar fights, beating their g... you get the picture.

 

[Zac_ETNZ]

So you don't see different degrees of likelihood in potential events...
Since we can't know we shouldn't say anything about anything.
wow.

Feel free to talk about what-ifs, but it's a waste of energy brother!

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

@Umaga's Witness Would you prefer some sort of league system without a knockout stage?
I wouldn't (but as you say, to each his own). I love, i LOVE the fact that we have a competition with a knockout system every four years. **** rankings, **** bets, **** forecasts. You have a bad half and you are out. It's not about being the best. It's about being the best when it matters.

Rugby won't be the same for me without him. Thank you Johnny.

this. I will miss him too. Tons.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

But isn't that the point? This separates the great sides from the good ones in the RWC where the pressure is scrunched down into 80 mins.

This AB side may not go on to win this RWC, but this Ireland team will forever be wondering why they didn't produce their best rugby and make it count in those crucial moments. Yes, fine margins and all that but they all add up to the end result.

This depends how you define great sides. If it is by who can best handle pressure, sure. I just prefer to see teams showing their greatest skill. Playing Rugby well seems especiallly difficult under pressure. I think it's because you cant just focus on one thing. Pressure can help you focus, if intense focus on one thing is what you need to do. So pressure in other sports often actually bring better performances. It brings better execution in the tackle in rugby, and sometimes better execution in kicks, but little else. Cohesion between players goes out the door. Which is a shame because that's where the real magic happens .

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Feel free to talk about what-ifs, but it's a waste of energy brother!

Thank you very much for allowing the rest of us to converse about concepts you fail to grasp. How gracious of you.

If the question is along the lines of 'what could have been done differently in order to win?', a question that every coach in the planet faces, what ifs are not nice-to-have. They are necessary.

 

[Zac_ETNZ]

Thank you very much for allowing the rest of us to converse about concepts you fail to grasp. How gracious of you.

If the question is along the lines of 'what could have been done differently in order to win?', a question that every coach in the planet faces, what ifs are not nice-to-have. They are necessary.

The only time what-ifs have any value is during game-planning, preparing and practising before a test match against specific opponents - not in post-mortems where the common fallacy is the wistful belief that the scoreline remains static after a certain event during the match.
Wasted energy.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

@Umaga's Witness Would you prefer some sort of league system without a knockout stage?
I wouldn't (but as you say, to each his own). I love, i LOVE the fact that we have a competition with a knockout system every four years. **** rankings, **** bets, **** forecasts. You have a bad half and you are out. It's not about being the best. It's about being the best when it matters.



this. I will miss him too. Tons.

let's say the best two teams played a test series. Then I think they'd have a better chance to settle their nerves. And the sample size would be greater

To me the World Cup is just a spectacle event. it's fun but It doesn't imply who is best. Every test matters to me. And test series are the pinnacle.

 

[Zac_ETNZ]

This depends how you define great sides. If it is by who can best handle pressure, sure. I just prefer to see teams showing their greatest skill. Playing Rugby well seems especiallly difficult under pressure. I think it's because you cant just focus on one thing. Pressure can help you focus, if intense focus on one thing is what you need to do. So pressure in other sports often actually bring better performances. It brings better execution in the tackle in rugby, and sometimes better execution in kicks, but little else. Cohesion between players goes out the door. Which is a shame because that's where the real magic happens .

I love knock-out rugby. It showcases the approach coaches have in their tactics and how they develop game-plans to suit the individual skills of their players. It inevitably generates pressure which forces teams to revert to the type of play they are collectively comfortable with.

England v Fiji tomorrow morning is a classic example.

 

[munstermuffin]

Yesterdays game was the most "ball in action" game of world cup. Says enough really on that stat

 

[duncanb]

As a neutral who rarely supports another team which I didn't in this one.
What a match had everything.
For me slight mark down on Farrell for not hooking Porter earlier clearly had lost Barnes (who had a good game)
Defence won it for Abs.
Shame Irish out but draw is what it is ,could it be improved yes will WR do it ,who knows.
Match worthy of a final

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

If Nienaber can crack it with Leinster in Europe and Munster keep progressing well in knock outs under Rowntree I fancy Ireland for 2027. I think Rowntree has found what works for Munster and they will keep growing under him.

I feel if Leinster could've just nipped one of those European finals then this game would've gone the other way and honestly reckon they would be champions.
But Lancaster just isn't someone to develop a hard belly in those big game final moments IMO.

I think Nienaber has more edge about him, now if Leinster can fill in the shoes of Sexton that will be the big question.
If Prendergast matches his hype then I don't think Ireland will have much to worry.

Andy Farrell is a good enough coach to win the RWC, just needs his players to win some more trophies at club level now.
I'm very jealous of the Irish setup compared to ours right now

 

[Saintjay]

Cycles, building for the RWC. Slams and win records, form all are nice haves. Yet really you just to win when you can.

If France, England all go out tonight, You've four teams who lost games at this RWC into the semi's. Yet won when it mattered.

 

[Zootalaws]

All the coulda, woulda, shoulda in the world doesn't mean **** - you get nothing from picking it apart in analysis. The only bad decision or mistake made was that of Mark Tele'a - to miss out on that… I'll bet he's feeling rough.

Two of the best teams in the world played each other to a standstill and left nothing on the park - nobody taking part was a 'loser'.

There was always going to be a winner, tho - this wasn't a fixture to end in a draw

As a kiwi I can't be sad - given Argentina is next, looks like we've made a strong play to booking a place in the final.

But, I feel for you men in green - so close to a really historic win. It just shows, 17 on the trot just means you're one game closer to your next defeat.

My mate rang me after the game and said his wee lass was crying. She wanted so badly to see them win. It shows that the depth of feeling runs deep in both countries.

Irishmen are my favourite foreigners. This team of yours has played with an intensity and need rarely seen. I hate that it was us that dashed your chances - that should have been the final.

We'll never see the like again, but we will see you build back better, stronger and maybe the next time it will be you saying nice things to soften the blow.

B'fhéidir gurb é deireadh an lae é, ach ní deireadh an bhóthair é

 

[O’Doyle Rules]

If Nienaber can crack it with Leinster in Europe and Munster keep progressing well in knock outs under Rowntree I fancy Ireland for 2027. I think Rowntree has found what works for Munster and they will keep growing under him.

I feel if Leinster could've just nipped one of those European finals then this game would've gone the other way and honestly reckon they would be champions.
But Lancaster just isn't someone to develop a hard belly in those big game final moments IMO.

I think Nienaber has more edge about him, now if Leinster can fill in the shoes of Sexton that will be the big question.
If Prendergast matches his hype then I don't think Ireland will have much to worry.

Andy Farrell is a good enough coach to win the RWC, just needs his players to win some more trophies at club level now.
I'm very jealous of the Irish setup compared to ours right now

Not sure bud. Some big names will not be making the next World Cup. Don't doubt the quality of rugby players coming in but think it may be 2031.

BUT we may just get an okay draw / run next time

 

[munstermuffin]

If Nienaber can crack it with Leinster in Europe and Munster keep progressing well in knock outs under Rowntree I fancy Ireland for 2027. I think Rowntree has found what works for Munster and they will keep growing under him.

I feel if Leinster could've just nipped one of those European finals then this game would've gone the other way and honestly reckon they would be champions.
But Lancaster just isn't someone to develop a hard belly in those big game final moments IMO.

I think Nienaber has more edge about him, now if Leinster can fill in the shoes of Sexton that will be the big question.
If Prendergast matches his hype then I don't think Ireland will have much to worry.

Andy Farrell is a good enough coach to win the RWC, just needs his players to win some more trophies at club level now.
I'm very jealous of the Irish setup compared to ours right now

I think crazy thing is I fear more for Leinster than us. Wig is a superb coach but built his coaching team on what he wanted to do but also with guys who know they system that is Irish rugby.
Leinster have been a superb team and Sexton takes a bit of that away now woth his departure. But more the flair and class Leinster had I fear Nienaber could take away and go for the bulk and drive approach.
And that is basing off their time here. Leinster will easily bulk up and maybe that approach will work in club scene to a certain level but it won't at international level. That is why Munster struggled to get lads in National team few years ago and Leinster 3rd string guys were being in mix. They didn't abandon skillset.
10 will be fine for us as there is a few gems but Leinster can't change style to South African model or else that will harm National team as it would be 2 contrasting styles

 

[Zootalaws]

What do you guys think about Peter O'Mahony being shut up after trash talking Sam Cane? To me, one of the few positives on Ireland loosing

I think you have all the emotional maturity of a mean girl holding court in the school toilets

I look forward to your teams humiliation in the semis