[RWC2023 QF2] Ireland vs New Zealand (14/10/2023)

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Irish fans remember we have Ollie Chessum so you can all join our fan base if you want

 

[Jimbo]

A pathological fear of losing is a pretty powerful motivation. Ireland didn't seem to have it today.

I don't know about that lots of ifs and buts, but had Sexton have nailed the pen a drop goal would have been an option, had Barrett not have pulled off that spectacular try saver, then again Aki had no rights (from a defensive POV) to score and that was a moment of individual brilliance, there was not much in it at all I just don't think NZ get the emotions that on point as often as that in 10 games hence I favour Ireland slightly more often, with that said NZ have never been as bad team as the last WC cycle would suggest, they have always had a team of supremely talented individuals.

 

[munstermuffin]

You can disagree and wish things were different all you like, but the point about Ireland's predictable attack formation and structure was all there for the All Blacks to see, and made their defence structure a lot easier.

I hadn't watched any Ireland games since they ate our lunch in NZ last year: their first game I watched since then was against SA, and I wasn't all that impressed by their performance. I was confident then that we would win the QF, regardless of our opponents.

But if you did watch Ireland games you'd see it is very varied and even yesterday they scored 3 tries from out the back, up front and off set piece. So again would say I'd disagree. Easy pinpoint a team on a loss but NZ didn't just routinely defend doing same thing. They defended aggressive, on the borderline and mixing it so again would aay your point isn't of sense. If Ireland won you wouldn't be on saying it.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Is anyone else feeling, like, really bad for our Green posters rn

Obviously not Derpus in his MASSIVE glass house

I really do. I posted the joke of the century and I deleted it. Not kidding.
I feel for them. They're a decent crowd and i want them to have their mourning in peace i guess. Well, considering the context, obs.

 

[munstermuffin]

Oh he's as experienced as hell and has been great I just don't think he's who I would chose when chasing a game far better to close one out was more what I was getting at but if JGP was out on his feet plus what was happening wasn't working I guess changing the picture isn't a bad thing.

To be fair Murray added to it and he mixed it up. That is no slight on JGP either. Both played well and the physicality of it was draining. JGP was involved alot in early physicality parts and left exposed so he was worn down a bit too

 

[Jimbo]

I really do. I posted the joke of the century and I deleted it. Not kidding.
I feel for them. They're a decent crowd and i want them to have their mourning in peace i guess. Well, considering the context, obs.

Was that something about Arg going all the way?

 

[Zac_ETNZ]

I don't know about that lots of ifs and buts, but had Sexton have nailed the pen a drop goal would have been an option, had Barrett not have pulled off that spectacular try saver, then again Aki had no rights (from a defensive POV) to score and that was a moment of individual brilliance, there was not much in it at all I just don't think NZ get the emotions that on point as often as that in 10 games hence I favour Ireland slightly more often, with that said NZ have never been as bad team as the last WC cycle would suggest, they have always had a team of supremely talented individuals.

I'm just glad to see the back of Foster after this RWC.

I'm not big on what-ifs or if-onlys: it's a waste of time because the structure of the game would have changed completely had certain events happened or not happened previously.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Was that something about Arg going all the way?

Nah. I don't like to brag about my team. I just like to humiliate other posters about theirs.
I am making an exception just this once.

 

[O’Doyle Rules]

I also thought the sexton missed penalty was actually massive. Given the massive phase play at the end, moving back and forth across the pitch, think we would have been well lined up.

All ifs!

 

[Jimbo]

I'm just glad to see the back of Foster after this RWC.

I'm not big on what-ifs or if-onlys: it's a waste of time because the structure of the game would have changed completely had certain events happened or not happened previously.

Agreed but they do need factoring in to paint a full picture, you can't sit there and say oh the defence was epic it was all predictable etc whilst ignoring the glaringly obvious had the kick gone over Sexton could have feasibly landed a drop goal in that huge phase play at the end he has done it before, your predictability argument would then fall flat on its face.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

One of the worst things about world cups is you don't get to see teams at their best. Instead you see them at their most nervous

 

[O’Doyle Rules]

It will be a shite Ireland team which make the semis out of the blue. I don't see us ever winning the World Cup though - this was a true golden team. Hopefully France win the whole thing so it just went as everyone expected

 

[OldSchoolRugga]

I haven't seen the full game yet, only saw the last 5 minutes, however a team who goes over 30 phases without scoring, clearly don't know what they are doing. You should score after 5-10 phases maximum. Having said that, NZ did have a good defense, but over 30 phases is inexcusable. So many phases just wastes so much time.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I also thought the sexton missed penalty was actually massive.

THIS! That is it, period. The rest is overanalyzing.
When you want to do an ex-post analysis like we're trying to do here you have to focus on things that have a) impact and b) were anomalies. All else is closer to creative writing than to rugby analysis.
Well, Johnny missing that kick is most def an anomaly and the impact was huge. Ireland gets that kick and it doesnt need to go for a try at the end. The chances you take and how you take them are completely different.

It breaks my heart because i like the guy but those are the facts.

 

[O’Doyle Rules]

Will Faz stay with Ireland for the next one?

 

[MattGaff]

A stupid system has basically made this the most anticlimatic World Cup of all time.
Best 4 teams in the quarter finals facing each other...after they already faced each other in the group stage. it will feel less exciting after tonight.

That has to be put to bed. I see it the other way around. We've had great games in the earlier stages rather than waiting for knockout stages where it gets interesting.
Its a draw. Id rather they just put all teams in a hat and draw them out randomly one after the other, than use a seeding system. Yes you could get a group of NZ, SA, France (2 other strong teams)... But its called luck of the draw!

 

[munstermuffin]

Will Faz stay with Ireland for the next one?

Yes 100% already signed for half cycle already

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Ire were chasing the match from the start. I wonder if they actually lost it pre match, whether the emotional control was right. We saw Porter crying - did his mindset have any impact on his subsequent penalty count?

Then there was the 8 in response to the haka. When they originally did it it was a brilliant, moving, appropriate tribute, and no doubt motivating. But that was 7 years ago, so why repeat here unless in a slightly desperate attempt to say that we've beaten you before? It probably had little bearing but if anything may have just steeled the ABs. Either way, although Ire fought back hard, the game was effectively won in that first quarter. Might seem minor points but at this level they add up and matter.

Sexton played the whole game. Everyone was knackered but he really looked like he was walking in treacle. Would fresh legs and a fresh mind have helped? Did fatigue play any part in the missed penalty? Who knows but by the end he looked what he was, in rugby terms an old man. He's had a fabulous career but to an outsider looking in he's overly dominated the narrative in the build up. As brilliant as an individual can be, teams are often better once a dominant character moves on - the Steven Gerrard effect. Ireland has the structures in place and after a bit of a reset they'll be there or thereabouts again. The conclusions of the inevitable post tournament review will be interesting.

Ire didn't get it quite right on a day when the ABs largely did. Fine margins.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

One of the worst things about world cups is you don't get to see teams at their best. Instead you see them at their most nervous

But isn't that the point? This separates the great sides from the good ones in the RWC where the pressure is scrunched down into 80 mins.

This AB side may not go on to win this RWC, but this Ireland team will forever be wondering why they didn't produce their best rugby and make it count in those crucial moments. Yes, fine margins and all that but they all add up to the end result.

 

[dullonien]

It will be a shite Ireland team which make the semis out of the blue. I don't see us ever winning the World Cup though - this was a true golden team. Hopefully France win the whole thing so it just went as everyone expected

I dunno mate. It was a golden generation team, but it had an unfortunately just over the hill Sexton at 10. Slot in a Sexton from 5 years ago, or even 2 years ago, and I think Ireland win that. He would have offered far more variation to the Irish attack, taking the ball moving, rather than static, loop plays etc. We saw little of that yesterday and that's in a large part because you had a 39y/o at 10.

This isn't meant as a dig at Sexton, he's done amazing to still be playing in such intense games at his age for the full 80. He's also.one of the best Irish players of all time, and in the top 5 (maybe 2) fly halves of all time in my book. But this was unfortunately a step too far for him, and it hindered those outside him imo.

Edit. I was supposed to go on and say that with the rude health of Irish rugby at provincial level, I don't think this is the end of the Irish 'golden generation'. You'll replace your good players. Maybe you won't find a better 10 than Sexton in his prime, but you'll find a better one than a 39y/o Sexton to better complement the rest of the side.