[RWC2023] New Zealand vs Italy (29/09/2023)

[Leonormous Boozer]

Ireland will get a rude awakening against NZ.

Class, I loved the one we got against South Africa

 

[Brigantine]

**** me that's a scoreline. Didn't get to watch but, and not that I think this was ever a worry, good reason for us not to get complacent....

Ireland: 82 - 8 Romania
France: 96 - 0 Namibia
England: 71 - 0 Chile
Wales: 40 - 6 Australia
New Zealand: Hold my beer

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Maybe an 8 team world cup is the future

Horp

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Disappointing defensive structures again. Italy made it look easy to Create space against us, in a manner Ireland is well adept.

We need to keep the ball at all costs against Ireland.

Happy to see some great NZ players be part of a good attacking performance before they move on from international rugby. An enjoyable game from that perspective. At least they can have some positive memories from their last World Cup.

 

[Zed]

The ABs have historically been the most ruthless around when they smell blood.

Yeah they've been pretty much written off by the media. Not heard their name mentioned much in relation to favourites to lift the cup. I think the ABs will love the fact they are almost underdogs and I don't think Ireland will like the fact they are favourites. I think it will be closeish, but I'm predicting the ABs by 10 points.

 

[BPM]

Oof, I never expected anything close to that margin.

If I were a Kiwi I'd still be a little concerned about the QF though. So far they've lost their only difficult game. Easy wins aren't much preparation for a genuine contest against proper, battle-hardened opponents.

If it is Ireland, they'll be coming in off the back of two proper test matches in comparison to three (barely) opposed training runs for NZ.

 

[MarcusLawrence]

Ireland: 82 - 8 Romania
France: 96 - 0 Namibia
England: 71 - 0 Chile
Wales: 40 - 6 Australia
New Zealand: Hold my beer

What exactly does that mean?!. It really does get my goat all these social media created phrases though. We never spoke like that in the 90s, it's even more annoying than novelty car stickers people have.

 

[West Country Wail]

Had this been good prep for ABs, will they be hardened against a non-sieve defences?

 

[Jimbo]

I don't think the ABs were ever as bad as has often been made out, just think they have remained fairly static whilst Ire, France & SA have discovered new heights, appreciate they have lost a few like Arg at home you wouldn't expect them to but they don't generally struggle against teams lower or similar in the world rankings consistently.
As painful as it probably is to admit for NZ fans they probably need to adjust mindset at accept that NZ are talented and have some great individuals but are just not a consistently all conquering team they have been used to.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Had this been good prep for ABs, will they be hardened against a non-sieve defences?

Don't know.

But their remaining pool game is v Uru on the 5th when presumably they'll limit game time for the first choice team.

Ire play a couple of days later against Sco which they should win making a NZ v Ire QF. But presumably Ire will field their top team for that.

There's then an 8 day turnaround which should be fine for both. Ire may be more battle hardened but the ABs may be a bit fresher. Part of it may depend on any injuries picked up in the final group games.

NZ weren't great against France but have got some key forwards back which should make them a tougher proposition.

Ire were brilliant v the Boks yet could easily have lost if the Boks goal kicking had been even average.

Ire seem to have their **** together but who knows whether the QF hoodoo or favourite status will effect them?

Should be a cracker.

 

[O’Doyle Rules]

There is absolutely no chance Ireland will beat NZ

 

[Which Tyler]

Easy wins aren't much preparation for a genuine contest against proper, battle-hardened opponents.

I think that playing flat-track bully can be good for the confidence.
The question then, is how much of the downturn in form is confidence (relating directly into execution) and how much is gameplan / talent?

For France, for example, I'd say their comparative downturn was about bedding in players into the first choice XV, and a little confidence due to that. Putting 96 on Namibia will have helped with both (but... Dupont... erm...).
Especially as they were running plays that they're happy to use against anyone (unlike England vs Chile, for example).

For NZ, I think it's more about gameplan and making the most of their talent. NZ have always been able rely on moments of individual brilliance, and able to take a mile every time the defence gives them an inch; always capable of putting in 5-10 minutes of just being unplayable and making the score a question of "how much" rather than "who".
So putting 96 on Italy will help their confidence and belief, but I'm not sure it improves their chances much against a top 4 team.

Which is not to write them off, of course, they're just "not necessarily the favourites" against 3 teams.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

There is absolutely no chance Ireland will beat NZ

Ah stop tempering expectations would ya! We're the team to beat, not them, when you focus on Ireland the question is "how the **** do you beat these guys?" That question isn't there for NZ, we know exactly how to beat them and know that we can do it.

That's not to say we will win but it'll be a failure if we don't.

 

[BPM]

Don't know.

But their remaining pool game is v Uru on the 5th when presumably they'll limit game time for the first choice team.

Ire play a couple of days later against Sco which they should win making a NZ v Ire QF. But presumably Ire will field their top team for that.

There's then an 8 day turnaround which should be fine for both. Ire may be more battle hardened but the ABs may be a bit fresher. Part of it may depend on any injuries picked up in the final group games.

NZ weren't great against France but have got some key forwards back which should make them a tougher proposition.

Ire were brilliant v the Boks yet could easily have lost if the Boks goal kicking had been even average.

Ire seem to have their **** together but who knows whether the QF hoodoo or favourite status will effect them?

Should be a cracker.

This is what I was getting at.

Ireland are favourites on the basis that they've blown away the Tier 2 teams as well as winning against their main rival in the pool. They've also had the better of NZ in their recent encounters and should benefit from a good tune up vs. Scotland.

However … the QF hoodoo is a monkey they really need to get off their back.

 

[ShropshireAllBlack]

This is what I was getting at.

Ireland are favourites on the basis that they've blown away the Tier 2 teams as well as winning against their main rival in the pool. They've also had the better of NZ in their recent encounters and should benefit from a good tune up vs. Scotland.

However … the QF hoodoo is a monkey they really need to get off their back.

None of the Irish team or coaches have discussed the "QF hoodoo" in public, and I don't believe that they think that way. However they have discussed winning the tournament and the QF is simply a milestone in achieving that.
16 consecutive wins with 2 wins against NZ & 2 wins against SA in that sequence tells me that it's the other teams that need to fear Ireland at the moment. Eire Abu!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Andy Farrell watching last night knowing the media will make NZ favourites again:

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

What exactly does that mean?!. It really does get my goat all these social media created phrases though. We never spoke like that in the 90s, it's even more annoying than novelty car stickers people have.

Andy Farrell watching last night knowing the media will make NZ favourites again:

View attachment 17962

You two are gonna get on well.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

None of the Irish team or coaches have discussed the "QF hoodoo" in public, and I don't believe that they think that way. However they have discussed winning the tournament and the QF is simply a milestone in achieving that.
16 consecutive wins with 2 wins against NZ & 2 wins against SA in that sequence tells me that it's the other teams that need to fear Ireland at the moment. Eire Abu!

Of course they haven't, but they will have in private. It's something the media make a thing of, and somewhere the players have never been - in thorough preparation it would be totally remiss not to address it. No doubt the answer will be to downplay and treat as just another game, but I'd be amazed if the psychologists hadn't been on that case.

Ire are flying, but long winning runs can also be monkeys on backs too. They're also favourites and there to be shot at. The pressures of no second chance knockout rugby also bring a different dimension.

Ire will rightly be favourites but I'm not putting that much money on them.

 

[IT157]

What exactly does that mean?!. It really does get my goat all these social media created phrases though. We never spoke like that in the 90s, it's even more annoying than novelty car stickers people have.

Talking about annoying phases. How annoying is it everyone calling someone a GOAT (Greatest of all Time) in every single sport. I feel dirty just typing it. When I was younger calling someone a goat was calling them idiot lol

 

[dirty harry]

I think the important part is mentioned above, Ireland will be kicking their lips, seeing media ramp up the kiwi threat.

Ireland are no.1, been dominant over NZ and France for a few years, now beaten SA in a RWC pool, and handily (I disagree the goal kicking was the difference).
Ireland are solid favourites, but want to be underdogs.

In a perfect world NZ score 200 points ve Italy and Uraguay, and Ireland squeeze past Scotland with criticism, that's what Ireland want.

I've seen nothing from NZ tovstate they can compete with Iteland in too many areas, not that they cant win, but I havnt seen it yet