[RWC2023] England vs Samoa (07/10/2023)

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

You most be the one delusional person who thinks there were positives to take away.

England didn't really deserve to win and your man Farrell hardly covered himself in glory, throwing intercepted passes and not kicking a gimme 3 points in front of the posts.

I'll give you two clear positives,

No red cards, no yellow cards.

That's about it

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

You most be the one delusional person who thinks there were positives to take away.

England didn't really deserve to win and your man Farrell hardly covered himself in glory, throwing intercepted passes and not kicking a gimme 3 points in front of the posts.

I didn't know we separated players during an England match.I thought we all wanted England as a team to do well.My man Farrell??(I'm not a 10 year old with a favourite player).I just can recognise when a player is being singled out for the failings of a team…if I got personal and vindictive towards Farrell or any other player would that suit your cause?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'm still waiting for any Farrell fans to tell me what he actually does well on a rugby pitch?

Coaches always say he's great in training but he seems pretty average in literally every match ever.

 

[BPM]

I didn't know we separated players during an England match.I thought we all wanted England as a team to do well.My man Farrell??(I'm not a 10 year old with a favourite player).I just can recognise when a player is being singled out for the failings of a team…if I got personal and vindictive towards Farrell or any other player would that suit your cause?

No. I'm not solely blaming Farrell for a collectively poor team performance, but considering you've put so much effort in to defending him, you sounded a bit like 'a 10 year old with a favourite player' (or more likely a myopic Saracens fan).

I think you're confused by my 'cause'.

The bottom line is that it wasn't a 'great game'. I want England to do well but I'm not going to pretend we were good when we plainly weren't.

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

No. I'm not solely blaming Farrell for a collectively poor team performance, but considering you've put so much effort in to defending him, you sounded a bit like 'a 10 year old with a favourite player' (or more likely a myopic Saracens fan).

I think you're confused by my 'cause'.

The bottom line is that it wasn't a 'great game'. I want England to do well but I'm not going to pretend we were good when we plainly weren't.

What is a great game???…England winning by 30 points and making no mistakes.what I consider great games and what you consider great games are maybe two different things.I like seeing a sporting contest and I believe that's what I watched…I'm also not a 10 year nor a saracens fan

 

[IT157]

You most be the one delusional person who thinks there were positives to take away.

England didn't really deserve to win and your man Farrell hardly covered himself in glory, throwing intercepted passes and not kicking a gimme 3 points in front of the posts.

I'm more optimistic than most around here but you should see the England facebook page!

 

[BPM]

What is a great game???…England winning by 30 points and making no mistakes.what I consider great games and what you consider great games are maybe two different things.I like seeing a sporting contest and I believe that's what I watched…I'm also not a 10 year nor a saracens fan

England winning isn't my definition of a great game. I also want a 'contest'. We just seem to have a very different idea of what great looks like. Compare what we watched this afternoon to Ireland vs. South Africa - that was a proper contest. England vs. Samoa wasn't anything like a thrilling exhibition of skills or physicality.

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

England winning isn't my definition of a great game. I also want a 'contest'. We just seem to have a very different idea of what great looks like. Compare what we watched this afternoon to Ireland vs. South Africa - that was a proper contest. England vs. Samoa wasn't anything like a thrilling exhibition of skills or physicality.

So what your really saying is if the standards not of the highest level it's not a great game to watch..I thought today Samoa raised there game and England although not at the best they can be had to contend with that and overcome their own mistakes and Samoas enthusiasm..that to me is a great game to watch.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

From the sounds of things, I'm glad I missed this one...

 

[ncurd]

From the sounds of things, I'm glad I missed this one...

Hard same reading this thread and the score was bad enough.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

It was a game of both teams playing pretty poorly. Pretty rubbish viewing really.

 

[Grizwald]

From the sounds of things, I'm glad I missed this one...

It was painful.

It's pretty obvious to the armchair coaches that the selection was poor, slow, ponderous, predictable.

England need some pace, I'm really hoping it's another Aled Walters intentional conditioning ploy as England were back to looking really leggy, runners were constantly isolated and support wasnt getting to the breakdown anywhere near quick enough to secure our ball. I still don't know what the best team is, I think Stewards form has really dipped over the last 6 months to the point I'd actually seriously put Smith in, need a 12 who's a threat ball in and as its too easy a read when Farrell will only kick or pass. Mitchell had a shocker, and May while you can't knock him for effort isn't the player he was 4 years ago how those who weren't in the original squad are now starters is a head scratcher.

England got stretched easily when a bit of width was put on, Fiji won't have any problem doing that.

 

[higgik]

Now I get England's plan… Hit the spidercam.

Do you not get extra points for that, like in school sport when you hit the headteacher's window!!!!

 

[higgik]

Cockers would've been better for this RWC

Yes, with the short turnaround, there needed to be someone who would knock the robotic nature out and just say it as it is.

 

[higgik]

I didn't know we separated players during an England match.I thought we all wanted England as a team to do well.My man Farrell??(I'm not a 10 year old with a favourite player).I just can recognise when a player is being singled out for the failings of a team…if I got personal and vindictive towards Farrell or any other player would that suit your cause?

Agreed.
He is not a key player in the English Champions without being good, but like every one, in team sports, you are only as good as the system and the players around you.
It has been EJ and SB obsessed with the GF, OF axis and kicking the ball away that has shown OF to be not very good at thinking for himself.
Always said, for Sarries he had Barritt, Losowski and Goode telling him what to do. For England he is the master and does not think well.

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

Agreed.
He is not a key player in the English Champions without being good, but like every one, in team sports, you are only as good as the system and the players around you.
It has been EJ and SB obsessed with the GF, OF axis and kicking the ball away that has shown OF to be not very good at thinking for himself.
Always said, for Sarries he had Barritt, Losowski and Goode telling him what to do. For England he is the master and does not think well.

I don't think that's true.It seems whenever I've watched saracens play that Farrell is definitely calling the shots.I think there's a focus on the England backs not being able to do this or do that but for me the real stumbling block for England at present is that the forwards cannot dominate for long periods of games.I think it's pretty irrelevant who plays where in the backs until that is improved upon.You can have the greatest attacking threat in the world but if your playing behind a beaten pack your not going to get many opportunities.

 

[BPM]

So what your really saying is if the standards not of the highest level it's not a great game to watch..I thought today Samoa raised there game and England although not at the best they can be had to contend with that and overcome their own mistakes and Samoas enthusiasm..that to me is a great game to watch.

Not at all. I'm just highlighting that yesterday's game was not a 'great game' by any usual definition. I think you're probably in a minority who thinks it was 'great'.

Ultimately we're not going to agree but it's entirely subjective and you are entitled to your opinion.

 

[BPM]

I don't think that's true.It seems whenever I've watched saracens play that Farrell is definitely calling the shots.I think there's a focus on the England backs not being able to do this or do that but for me the real stumbling block for England at present is that the forwards cannot dominate for long periods of games.I think it's pretty irrelevant who plays where in the backs until that is improved upon.You can have the greatest attacking threat in the world but if your playing behind a beaten pack your not going to get many opportunities.

I agree with the bolded. Samoa really slowed us down at he breakdown which made our poor attacking play even worse. Curry had some decent moments but looked rusty and collectively the back row didn't do a good enough job of ensuring continuity/quick ball.

It won't happen, but it would be nice if Tom Willis or Mercer could come straight in at 8 so Curry and Earl can play on the flanks. Harsh on Lawes, but he was poor yesterday and I think he is probably he wrong choice against Fiji.

 

[Captain Riggs]

Were you watching a different game?

What are your thoughts? Do you think TMOs get too involved? How do think the referres and TMO's should control the game?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Not at all. I'm just highlighting that yesterday's game was not a 'great game' by any usual definition. I think you're probably in a minority who thinks it was 'great'.

From a purists perspective, no.

But it was tight with, right until the last play, the real possibility of a T2 team taking down a (sort of) T1. A classic haves v have nots and who doesn't love an underdog, especially when England is the overdog?

The neutral will have enjoyed that far more than the one sided processions.