[RWC2023] England vs Samoa (07/10/2023)

[LIONSxv]

I agree with the bolded. Samoa really slowed us down at he breakdown which made our poor attacking play even worse. Curry had some decent moments but looked rusty and collectively the back row didn't do a good enough job of ensuring continuity/quick ball.

It won't happen, but it would be nice if Tom Willis or Mercer could come straight in at 8 so Curry and Earl can play on the flanks. Harsh on Lawes, but he was poor yesterday and I think he is probably he wrong choice against Fiji.

Lawes is great but he has never been a top level flanker. The only reason he is playing six is that Eddie and SB saw SA do it and have tried for 4 years to replicate the same selection for England. Despite not having the personnel to imitate SA
Our best rugby over the past 10 years has been played with specialist flankers and specialist 8

 

[BPM]

I disagree. Lawes has had some excellent games as a 6. He was also playing on the flank long before Eddie. It just became a permanent switch more recently at Lawes' preference I believe?

I don't think it's an ability or even suitability piece - it's Father Time catching p with him that means he can't do it every week.

 

[Grizwald]

Clive giving some pearls.I can't see Mercer coming back in, I reckon whoever does won't make the 23 anyhow for next Sunday. But who knows as there's a few starter who weren't in the original squad. I didn't think Billy Vunipola was too bad yesterday but for his impetulance on and then when he got took off the field.

Lawes had a rare off game yesterday. As I understand it he hasn't started or played much at lock for Northampton, he's she'd some weight as a result.

The English pack haven't dominated any other minus Chile which is a worry.

Steward has been poor, he's been done defensively evey time he's played in the warm ups and the pool games on the turn. Shouldn't really be tinkering with the line up going into a quarter final but I suppose that's what happens when you make someone your cpatian who's been banned and feel like you need to get into the side come hell or high water.

SIR CLIVE WOODWARD: What Steve Borthwick needs to do for England

SIR CLIVE WOODWARD: The game against Samoa was a massive wake-up call for England and they got away with it - Steve Borthwick has some big decisions to make.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[LIONSxv]

I disagree. Lawes has had some excellent games as a 6. He was also playing on the flank long before Eddie. It just became a permanent switch more recently at Lawes' preference I believe?

I don't think it's an ability or even suitability piece - it's Father Time catching p with him that means he can't do it every week.

Lawes is a fine player, but isn't a top class international flanker. A fit Underhill is better in every facet of the flanker role barring the line out. Although this obsession with a specialist jumper at 6 is over egged
Not have a 6 foot 8 flanker at the last WC didn't stop us playing well. Not did it stop us winning 17 games on the spin

 

[Crash Hamster]

Not have a 6 foot 8 flanker at the last WC didn't stop us playing well.

I've been repeatedly shot down for this, but I'll say it again:

Maybe a dozen (own) lineouts in the match, three jumpers. How often does the ball go to a 6'8 flanker at the absolute top of his jump? It's telling that the side on camera shots at lineouts often show jumpers taking the ball in front of their faces.

Opposition ball, how often does the third jumper compete at full stretch?

Yeah, the extra three or four inches don't make up for less good performance at actual flanker things.

(not criticising Lawes here, he's been pretty damn good at flanker things and I like what I've seen of him as a human being, but he seems to be on the downslope and I wish he'd retire as he's had too many head injuries)

 

[Grizwald]

Underhill brought in for Willis injury replacement. Underhill is a fine player but there's enough 7 cover, as I said in a previous post I don't think whoever comes in will be in the 23 anyhow for next weekend.

On the line out the semi final against NZ in the last world cup they moved Barret to 6 to challenge the English line out and didn't. If the drills and calls are bob on I don't think you need a lock sized 6.

 

[BPM]

Lawes is a fine player, but isn't a top class international flanker. A fit Underhill is better in every facet of the flanker role barring the line out. Although this obsession with a specialist jumper at 6 is over egged
Not have a 6 foot 8 flanker at the last WC didn't stop us playing well. Not did it stop us winning 17 games on the spin

Lawes at 6 isn't my preferred option either. I was simply disagreeing with your comment that he's 'not a top class international flanker'. I think he is/has been and any argument about him being a lock played out of position it outdated and incorrect (I know you didn't say that but others do).

 

[OldSchoolRugga]

This game had some really good stuff, but the ref had way too much fun blowing the whistle. Some really good tries and some dodgy calls by the ref. In the end, an ok game.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

Could Fiji beat England next week???

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Could Fiji beat England next week???

I mean... yes... obviously?

Literally did beat us a matter of weeks ago

 

[Saintjay]

Could Fiji beat England next week???

Yes, Englands defence hasn't been great and Fiji will run at then all day given the chance.

 

[LIONSxv]

Yes, Englands defence hasn't been great and Fiji will run at then all day given the chance.

England's best chance to hold them is to play Underhill. We are desperate for a stopper against teams power runners

 

[Grizwald]

Could Fiji beat England next week???

Absolutely. No one has really put much width in attack against England until Samoa who made England's defence look pretty frail at times.

Fiji will have no problem doing that.

See how they come out of the Portugal game. They looked a but leggy against Georgia but those two openning games really will have took it out of them and they've not had the luxury of rotating players as much in the pool games.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

On the plus side re: centres, I thought Lawrence looked fantastic when he came on. He made a couple of big interventions.

 

[Grizwald]

On the plus side re: centres, I thought Lawrence looked fantastic when he came on. He made a couple of big interventions.

Felt it was one of those games last night where the starting 15 were pretty much all gash making all those that came on look good. Care also was good but Mitchell had a shocker.

 

[dirty harry]

Absolutely. No one has really put much width in attack against England until Samoa who made England's defence look pretty frail at times.

Fiji will have no problem doing that.

See how they come out of the Portugal game. They looked a but leggy against Georgia but those two openning games really will have took it out of them and they've not had the luxury of rotating players as much in the pool games.

This is key IMHO.

Fiji have done brilliantly to qualify (if they do) but its been such a difficult slog.

They threw the kitchen sink at Wales first half, and really put a graft in 2nd half. They then had to play a knockout game v Australia, then another against Georgia, and finally they cant afford to rest players as they still need a point v Portugal.


A rested, fit and firing Fiji I think go into the England game with a great chance of a win, as we saw in the warm ups, but with their first 15 playing 4 games, and one less day recovery than England it just feels like a game too far.

England still have to spoil the party, neutrals will be booing everything England do, as they did v Wales, and if Fiji get a sniff they really will have a crack.

Ultimately though, England should be pretty happy with how the tournament turned out this far

 

[Duct Tape]

if the Fiji in the first two games plays yesterday's England, Fiji wins easily. Can't believe how far England has fallen. Hope I'm wrong, but….

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

On the plus side re: centres, I thought Lawrence looked fantastic when he came on. He made a couple of big interventions.

For me Lawrence is just as powerful a ball carrier as Tuilagi and he has better hands so its a no brainer that he should be in the starting 15.

 

[Dean Cooperfield-West]

The match confirms what I suspected all along - the wins over Chile, Argentina and Japan (who were all rubbish) mask how bad we really are

 

[dirty harry]

The match confirms what I suspected all along - the wins over Chile, Argentina and Japan (who were all rubbish) mask how bad we really are

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What are you complaining about?!?!