[RWC2023] England vs Argentina (09/09/2023)

[McTallshort]

Ok. Enjoy your kickathon. I'm outa here.

Oh no come back...

 

[McTallshort]

We can discuss all sorts of stuff and debate Argentina's performance, but let's be clear- for England to put 27 points on Argentina in 27-10 win with 14 men for what, 78 minutes? That's a staggering result and performance from the hole they were in from 6N and RWC Warm Ups. If we kick them when they're down, let's also acknowledge when they step up.

They looked fitter, sharper, faster and defended as well as I've seen for a couple of years. Itoje, Tuilagi, George to name but a few who showed some teeth tonight which had been missing for a while. Fords leadership and game management was absolutely superb. Farrell should only now he bench 10 and 12 cover.

Crucially, when they kicked, they kicked well. I thought touch kicking in particular was superb. Good distance, good accuracy. Kick chase largely good, just the odd one too deep (into the 22).

Can't quite believe what I watched to be honest.

Key thing now- same as France yesterday- simmer down, appreciate the challenge Japan bring, and get a performance out there that builds on today.

It's a step forward, a line in the sand, but it requires backing up.

Agree but Lawes was England's top forward tonight. Think he needs a mention

 

[TopTen2003]

Agree but Lawes was England's top forward tonight. Think he needs a mention

Yes agreed- shouldn't have missed him out! Excellent game indeed

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I would hope this would go some way to dispelling the myth that Farrell is the ultimate game manager and Ford doesn't have a hope without Farrell there to hold his hand and be his safety net. Unfortunately the myth around Farrells ability seems to be very stubborn. I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time where England have been forced to play without Farrell and actually performed better than they previously had with him.

 

[dullonien]

When England butchered the overlap... I missed what we were penalised for, does someone remember?

If that was the one where May ended up in touch on the right. May refused to hand the ball over to Arg and got penalised for it.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Great win and really enjoyable actually. I thought England were very impressive. The drop goals won the game I think.

Couple of questions:
Will Curry be banned for England's next games?
When England butchered the overlap... I missed what we were penalised for, does someone remember?

Yeah May refused to give the ball up repeatedly, truly as stupid as it gets.

 

[TommiG88]

I don't know if that is aimed at me. I am not complaining about a lack of attack in this game (although they did butcher an overlap in their usual style). I am saying that concluding they will suddenly be able to pass coherently and break defensive formations as a result of a resilient defensive display against a lobotomised opponent is not a conclusion I would make. I also think England have no chance against a top 5 opponent if the tactic is 8 man rugby and drop goals (which was a necessity in this match).

I would argue it takes more than confidence to be a coherent attacking force. It takes decent coaching and a basic level of player ability. I saw nothing to suggest England will wake up with those qualities later on in this tournament. I guess of they put 30+ on Samoa and Japan that would be the beginnings of the signs I am horrifically wrong.

With this draw England (and Argentina) can offer almost nothing in attack and still have a decent chance of a semifinal. I genuinely hope someone steps up in that half of the draw but personally I saw no evidence of that today.

It was a general comment, but wasn't aimed at you

 

[Rinkadink]

Congrats, well played.

Psychology played a big part IMHO, for both teams. I think that's why it was so compelling in spite of the handling errors, lack of tries, etc.

I think Argentina will come back strong from this plus experience of being favourites in big games and under pressure.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Congrats, well played.


Just checked the stats. Couldnt find knock ons but Eng had 11, ELEVEN Scrums (as a proxy for our kos).
We had 2 scrums. Lost one of those.
We had 15 LO's (our throw). Lost 4 of those.

We can argue about tactics all you want, but no tactic will survive those numbers. Tactics matter once you've understood dropping the ball is a bad thing and that if the opposition consistently arrives earlier at the break down they will make you pay for it.

This was so, SOOO bad i am actually inclined to believe this is a one-off. I mean, it has to be.

15 turnovers, 11/15 at lineups, and 13 penalties conceded. Feel like it doesn't really matter what you do outside of that and you'll lose to anyone worth a damn.

They have times to turn things around but they can't repeat this.

 

[Becca]

Ford/Lawes 15 - 3 Argentina

We're so good we only need two players….

 

[MarcusLawrence]

15 turnovers, 11/15 at lineups, and 13 penalties conceded. Feel like it doesn't really matter what you do outside of that and you'll lose to anyone worth a damn.

They have times to turn things around but they can't repeat this.

Stats and figures never lie and Argentina was so bad if they keep this up, I cannot see them doing well.

Last WC they also lost to England and didn't get out of their group.

 

[TommiG88]

This tickled me

 

[MarcusLawrence]

View attachment 17617
This tickled me

It's so funny because it's true.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Wait why wasn't Ford hauled off for an HIA? It's just **** up after **** up

 

[Saintjay]

View attachment 17617
This tickled me

Bbc hys, it's like twitter but without the smut.

 

[Summer Rose]

Are you here to learn, or just to observe this pit of degenerates ?

Why not both?

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Genuinely the most I've enjoyed an England game in a long time.

For the first time in ages it actually felt like there was some real fire in the belly, but it was controlled in its aggression.

 

[MarcusLawrence]

Really don't understand this, they didn't score one try and just kicked goals.

I didn't see any belly fires in them, in fact not in any one of the 30 players on that pitch.

Was I watching a different game from everyone else who actually enjoyed that?!.

 

[MarcusLawrence]

Bbc hys, it's like twitter but without the smut.

And they only allow it to appear on news articles that scaremonger, and anything to do with Sport.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Ok. Enjoy your kickathon. I'm outa here.

You sound like a 12-year old that's upset when an episode of a Star Wars TV show doesn't have a lightsaber fight every 5 minutes.