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[RWC2019][The Final] England vs. South Africa (02/11/2019)

First on set piece, one side or the other might get a slight advantage but no team is going destroy the other. Mainly because it's a RWC final and no team gets that far against the teams they've played against and make it that far with a shoddy set piece. Remember how the ABs played an extra lock at 6 and we're going to total our scrum. Well that master plan worked brilliantly.

Point is both teams are known canny operators. Probably hoping for a scrum penalty or two and the odd stolen lineout but it's not Andrew Sheridan single handedly destroying the Ozzie scrum ala 2007.
 
On England selection really happy with no changes it would of been utter madness to make any but they could of been enforced by injury. Glad to see that's not the case and this XV can go in with some confidence that if they play like they on Saturday they'll likely be the victors on the day.


No real change from prediction on Sunday though. SA will want an arm wrestle and if they force that which they are more than capable of doing they'll probably have a slight advantage (and it is slight probably 55/45 arm wrestle's create 50/50 affairs not advantage X). England will want to start off quickly and get on the scoreboard at which point SA chances rapidly diminish chasing a game especially the larger the lead England can get.

Probably still 60/40 in England's favour. Mainly due England not making enforced changes.

If England switch off I ask the SAffers to be gentle with us. Because whilst I understand wanting to celebrate gloating at us would be uncouth and we'll likely be absolutely livid with the England team like I'm going to ****** at them for least a month.
 
ncurd said:
First on set piece, one side or the other might get a slight advantage but no team is going destroy the other. Mainly because it's a RWC final and no team gets that far against the teams they've played against and make it that far with a shoddy set piece. Remember how the ABs played an extra lock at 6 and we're going to total our scrum. Well that master plan worked brilliantly.

Point is both teams are known canny operators. Probably hoping for a scrum penalty or two and the odd stolen lineout but it's not Andrew Sheridan single handedly destroying the Ozzie scrum ala 2007.
Click to expand...

I get that. But to play a lock at flank, doesn't do much to the scrum as a set piece. I never got that reasoning ever. The flanker's role in the scrum is minimal, and only gets involved when the push starts, or when he has to break off and defend.

If your engine room, the props, hooker and locks are on song, and you can get the upper hand at the scrums, then not only can you get a penalty or a free kick, but you also tire out the opposition.

My guess is that the set plays will be a major area of contention.
 
I just watched that Sam Underhill Story insert. I have never in my life seen a pair of shoulders like that guy has holy ****.
 
unrated said:
If it was a South African who said that, then that person would have been berated. But no because its The springboks who chose the sensible option it must surely show how weak their mentality is right?
Click to expand...

This is some made up nonsense. Most people disagreed with the guy.

You don't need to defend yourself against imaginary statements.
 
TRF_heineken said:
But to play a lock at flank, doesn't do much to the scrum as a set piece. I never got that reasoning ever. The flanker's role in the scrum is minimal, and only gets involved when the push starts, or when he has to break off and defend.
Click to expand...
Sorry wasn't clear seperate thing's. The extra lock was supposed to cause us massive problems at the lineout (England spent years experimenting with a 3rd lock we can you tell how shite a plan it was). But people also said their front row would beat us off the park (also didn't happen).


I think there will a huge battle in the set piece. But I don't think it will be won there it'll be a phony war with neither team getting the decisive blow from it. Unless theirs a maul try....but I think both teams are too good at maul defence.


So where I think the game will be won/lost

1) The breakdown will SA provide enough support to stop Cunderhilltoje? SA will have seen what happened to NZ if anything it will cause them to tighten up more. Have England fixed their demons especially in regards to support runners?

2) England attack V SA defence. SA have one the best defences in world and this tournament England have one the best attacks. Can SA smother it enough or will England make decisive breaks. The Ford/Farrell axis is proven to breakdown most defensives but this won't be a given by stretch especially if Youngs is his usual glacial self. English fans take a second to imagine if faf was English. The other side is clinicalness whilst I expect England's attack to create them opportunities they need finish them off or at least get 3 points. England ventured into ABs 22 plenty of times in the first half against NZ but only came away with points once. That absolutely needs to change because I really don't expect SA to give as many chances as the ABs did.
 
Jer1cho said:
I just watched that Sam Underhill Story insert. I have never in my life seen a pair of shoulders like that guy has holy ****.
Click to expand...
I fully expect a major forward at some point to be flat on his back with an expression of what just hit me as he gets up. The man's tackling technique is scary as hell and takes all momentum of the opposite player.
 
Anyone who thinks Youngs is 'glacial' needs to rewatch the build up to England's try last week.

Also have a look at how Youngs takes the ball off the back of the maul dynamically compared to Heinz who waits for it to drop and then is forced to kick against his strength.
 
ncurd said:
I fully expect a major forward at some point to be flat on his back with an expression of what just hit me as he gets up. The man's tackling technique is scary as hell and takes all momentum of the opposite player.
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He has the best tackle technique in the world imo. None of this hug the other player BS. He cuts what moves. Every schoolboy should take notes from him.
 
ncurd said:
I fully expect a major forward at some point to be flat on his back with an expression of what just hit me as he gets up. The man's tackling technique is scary as hell and takes all momentum of the opposite player.
Click to expand...
It's a pity Rassie didn't include Marco van Staden in the WC group, would've been a monumental battle between these 2 players.
 
ncurd said:
Sorry wasn't clear seperate thing's. The extra lock was supposed to cause us massive problems at the lineout (England spent years experimenting with a 3rd lock we can you tell how shite a plan it was). But people also said their front row would beat us off the park (also didn't happen).


I think there will a huge battle in the set piece. But I don't think it will be won there it'll be a phony war with neither team getting the decisive blow from it. Unless theirs a maul try....but I think both teams are too good at maul defence.


So where I think the game will be won/lost

1) The breakdown will SA provide enough support to stop Cunderhilltoje? SA will have seen what happened to NZ if anything it will cause them to tighten up more. Have England fixed their demons especially in regards to support runners?

2) England attack V SA defence. SA have one the best defences in world and this tournament England have one the best attacks. Can SA smother it enough or will England make decisive breaks. The Ford/Farrell axis is proven to breakdown most defensives but this won't be a given by stretch especially if Youngs is his usual glacial self. English fans take a second to imagine if faf was English. The other side is clinicalness whilst I expect England's attack to create them opportunities they need finish them off or at least get 3 points. England ventured into ABs 22 plenty of times in the first half against NZ but only came away with points once. That absolutely needs to change because I really don't expect SA to give as many chances as the ABs did.
Click to expand...

Ah. You shouldn't play a lock at Flank just to help you out at Lineouts... We learnt that the hard way. But with that said, We have 4 Jumpers in our team, with the locks, PSDT and Vermeulen.

As for the breakdowns. I think this is where there is a massive difference between us and NZ. Our guys go into rucks to disrupt as much as possible and to slow it down and even attempt the counter rucks. We don't stand off as much as NZ and fan out the forwards (we do, but not the whole pack).

As for your 2nd point. I Believe it was EJ that said it after the NZ game: "Attack wins you games, Defence wins you championships". The way I see it, if the Boks attack it will be either with De Allende crashing in the 10/12 channel and trying to break the tackle, or have our forwards try and bash upfield and try to free up space out wide, or try and get our Maul moving. That maul we did against Japan which led to Faf's try was just beautiful to watch.

Other than that I don't see how else we'll try and attack.
 
Goodey said:
Anyone who thinks Youngs is 'glacial' needs to rewatch the build up to England's try last week.

Also have a look at how Youngs takes the ball off the back of the maul dynamically compared to Heinz who waits for it to drop and then is forced to kick against his strength.
Click to expand...

His passing from the lineouts was really impressive, too. Long accurate passes to the middle that shifted our point of attack really quickly
 
I just read an interesting stat:

Maro Itoje is the leader in the WC with steals at the breakdown, with 10.

South Africa's leading player in that department has won 5. Guess who it is without googling it?
 
TRF_heineken said:
I just read an interesting stat:

Maro Itoje is the leader in the WC with steals at the breakdown, with 10.

South Africa's leading player in that department has won 5. Guess who it is without googling it?
Click to expand...

Flo ?
 

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