RWC: Argentina - England (10-09-2011, 20:30)

[Aout]

Jonny is starting. Finally, M. Johnson has opened his eyes.

 

[TNT88]

Why have Flood/Youngs suddenly been shifted to the bench? Is this a trial for Wilkinson or is this their starting team?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He started two out three warm up tests....




Flood is on the bench because he's lost form since the Ireland match in the Six Nations

Youngs is on the bench because he had surgery at the start of the summer so missed all of the warm up tests so will be lacking in match fitness

 

[Aout]

Why have Flood/Youngs suddenly been shifted to the bench? Is this a trial for Wilkinson or is this their starting team?

Flood is on the bench because Wilkinson is better.

 

[Aout]

He started two out three warm up tests....




Flood is on the bench because he's lost form since the Ireland match in the Six Nations

Youngs is on the bench because he had surgery at the start of the summer so missed all of the warm up tests so will be lacking in match fitness

I'm not 100% convinced that Wilkinson is a first choice in M.J's mind, despite the fact that England won their 2 games when he started whereas they lost when Flood was in the starting XV.

 

[TNT88]

He started two out three warm up tests....




Flood is on the bench because he's lost form since the Ireland match in the Six Nations

Youngs is on the bench because he had surgery at the start of the summer so missed all of the warm up tests so will be lacking in match fitness

Fair enough, thanks. (admittedly I only watched the Wales game, and yea the backline was pretty dodgey)

 

[Logorrhea]

The balance of the back row is pretty horrible.

Yep. The only really weak point in the team to be honest. It will do fine against the smaller nations, but they will suffer when they come against a half decent backrow.

I'm not 100% convinced that Wilkinson is a first choice in M.J's mind, despite the fact that England won their 2 games when he started whereas they lost when Flood was in the starting XV.

I think he is, but I dont think Wilko is actually playing that well. In both of those games, where Wilko played (and England won), he was less than convincing. The only reason hes still in there is because Flood was worse.

I'm a fan of Wilko, but his recent (last few games I mean) has actually been pretty poor. Still the better player, but poor by his standards.

 

[Peat]

Yep. The only really weak point in the team to be honest. It will do fine against the smaller nations, but they will suffer when they come against a half decent backrow.

Based on that, only Ireland have a half-decent back row in the Northern Hemisphere. Maybe Scotland to push the argument.

 

[Aout]

With the likes of Dusautoir, Harinordoquy, Bonnaire, Ouedraogo and Picamoles, France has some arguments too. I'm not worried about the English backrow, Haskell will always be there to do the job !

 

[psychic duck]

Am I right in thinking Johnson has picked Wigglesworth ahead of Youngs due to Youngs' recent injury ...

or does Johnno seriously think Wigglesworth is better?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Due to injury, I reckon

Youngs can be hit or miss, but is still a lot better than W'Worth (Simpson is also better than Wiggy, imo)

 

[JW.]

Due to his injury he doesn't want to rush him back into action.

On Richard Wigglesworth's selection ahead of Ben Youngs, Johnson said: "Wiggers is a savvy player, he's been around a little bit longer than the other two [scrum-halves] and he's taken the responsibility well. He's got a real maturity about him and it gives us some real experience.

 

[Peat]

With the likes of Dusautoir, Harinordoquy, Bonnaire, Ouedraogo and Picamoles, France has some arguments too. I'm not worried about the English backrow, Haskell will always be there to do the job !

Yes, but as France's backrow failed to make England's suffer during the 6N (and we're talking nigh identical backrows for England here), then by Logorrhea's logic, France possess a less than half-decent back row.

 

[Logorrhea]

Based on that, only Ireland have a half-decent back row in the Northern Hemisphere. Maybe Scotland to push the argument.

Explain ........ cant wait to see how you got that doozey from my comment.

Oh.... just saw your other point. Which logic would that be exactly? Did I set out a logical arguement of some sorts that leads to this conclusion of yours?

 

[ZeFrenchy]

I think the logic was:

This backrow will get dominated by any half decent one.

They played against, and were not dominated by, every European bacrow except maybe Ireland in the 6N

ergo, no European backrow is even half decent except maybe Ireland.

So, given that the second statement is true, the first statement would imply the third. Aristotles FTW.

 

[Sixesandsevens]

Im a big Youngs fan but can definately understand why Wigglesworth is starting this week, and I think he's a pretty tidy if unflash player.

 

[Peat]

ZeFrenchy has nailed down my point entirely.

 

[j'nuh]

Im a big Youngs fan but can definately understand why Wigglesworth is starting this week, and I think he's a pretty tidy if unflash player.

+1

A good performance off the bench will see Youngs regain the 9 shirt. Hopefully it's the same with Flood too.

 

[Logorrhea]

I think the logic was:

This backrow will get dominated by any half decent one.

They played against, and were not dominated by, every European bacrow except maybe Ireland in the 6N

ergo, no European backrow is even half decent except maybe Ireland.

So, given that the second statement is true, the first statement would imply the third. Aristotles FTW.

ZeFrenchy has nailed down my point entirely.

But your point is based on a fallacy. THIS backrow didnt play once during the 6 nations. Tom Wood played, an acknowledged groundhog that offered some balance. Before that Moody would do the job.

My comment was based on the current selection of a prop to play 8, an 8 to play at 7 and a 4 to play at 6.

I'm not saying any of them are poor players, I just believe that a modern backrow has to have a balance. Some NH teams play a 6 at 7 up here, but when they do that the 8 would do a job at the breakdown instead (Heaslip is the lightest forward in the Irish pack, he does it for Ireland). This England backrow doesnt have anything close to that balance.

 

[JW.]

Croft is a good 6. Not a 4. Hope he hits form again this WC and shows it again.