RWC: All Blacks - France (24-09-2011, 15:30)

[UilamOsa]

I am very happy with this team, they better keep it on game day.

I find it funny people can moan about Daggs selection over Mills. Dagg is the future, Mills is the past get used to it.

Daggs defence is solid as a rock, he has great positional play, he has everything you ever wanted in a fullback.
He will become the greatest fullback NZ has ever had, Mills will be forgotten, quote me, you heard it here first!!!!

Just like Doug Howlett & Aaron Mauger were the past in Cardiff 2007.

Dagg's defensive abilities are questionable. I'd consider him to be similar to Beale defensively.

I wish him all the best but Mils will always be a more complete player.

 

[i tickle ur tum]

the breakdown will be key here for both teams but if its good quick clean ball it could be a cracker...i hope it is!! whats the forecast?

 

[james5000]

Just like Doug Howlett & Aaron Mauger were the past in Cardiff 2007.

Dagg's defensive abilities are questionable. I'd consider him to be similar to Beale defensively.

I wish him all the best but Mils will always be a more complete player.

I disagree, and we can watch and see this weekend and for the rest of Daggs career.

Dagg is complete, he doesn't lack anything in defence. He's a better attacking player and has a better boot. Plus he has pace.

 

[ranger]

the breakdown will be key here for both teams but if its good quick clean ball it could be a cracker...i hope it is!! whats the forecast?

I'm no meteorologist, but i would guess "cold n ****".

 

[Dizzy]

Cullen was brilliant and had a very good career. I know Dagg hasn't done much yet, but he has a whole career left to achieve greatness.
You can't compare their careers yet, it wouldn't be fair. I just see so much potential in Dagg, he has everything, i am confident he will reach his potential.

I grew up playing against this guy so I know about the potential you speak of... But Cullen did things the modern game just won't let anyone else immitate. Dagg does have great potential, but to dismiss the greatness of Cullen will be one of thee hardest achievements to overcome. Well, so far he is being compared to Cullen so I guess there is a bit of truth in what you say afterall.

 

[Dizzy]

Just read on Stuff that Henry's selection is his best team and showed full emotion when talking about the axing of Mils as his premier Fullback. Quite a good, touching read,... lol... one reporter said it's possible that Mils could be stranded on 98-99 caps by the end of his career and Henry replied, "I think I know that more than you", lol,

Aahh the job of being All Black coach

 

[ZeFrenchy]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=522&objectid=10467331

Not relevant for this game, but always nice to remember

 

[Dizzy]

HAHAHA.... Well that won't happen again.

 

[FlukeArtist]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=522&objectid=10467331

Not relevant for this game, but always nice to remember

HAHAHA what an absolute douche Rattue is!!

The amount of times he is gets it wrong is phenomenal.

Good luck to you ZeFrenchy and to the French Team and all its supporters.
As as I once heard in a quote from a South African woman to Sean Fitzpatrick:
"I wish you all the best, but I hope you lose!"

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Im going to stick my neck out here and say Thompson and Slade are no where near as bad and a lot of people are aking them out to be.

They are being compared to Carter and Richie, two of the best players in history.

Even if you compare slade to Piri you are talking about a guy with half a dozen games to a true campaigner, no wonder piri looks so much more cool and calm out there he's done it ten times as many times as slade.

Maybe im seeing things but for every "mistake" slade has made in the black jersey i would say he's shown a little bit of class too. the chips and crubbers in behind the line shows so much more skill than donalds run and get tackled move. Far from perfect i admit but surely stills show promiss.

people bag Thompson for giving away penalties...how many does richie give away? fewer im sure but i would guess any non kiwis on here would say he SHOULD get more!

In the end, given the squad they have selected i am more than happy with these guys taking the field. In fact having vito on the bench (and half back is a coin toss for me, all provide something different) is the only change i would make to the team

 

[nickdnz]

This team is crazy.

Hore can play like a fetcher, but I don't think he has the mobility to be a good option at 7. Sonny Bill Williams at 22 over Muliaina...? Talk of Mils not reaching 100 test caps is sad, but there is no doubt in my mind he can cover the utility spot considerably better than SBW who is realistically an out and out 2nd 5/8th being fit in where ever. Having both Ali Williams and Anthony Boric on the bench is an absolute joke! Boric is not a blindside flanker, but he is a better lock at the moment than Ali Williams who never really earned his spot. HOW HAS THOMSON EARNED A SPOT AT 8?!?!?! Victor Vito has been quiet, but better than Thomson and there is no good reason why either of the players should not be in the 22, considering they are backrowers and we have two locks.

Henry and co are f*cking losing the plot.

 

[james5000]

This team is crazy.

Hore can play like a fetcher, but I don't think he has the mobility to be a good option at 7. Sonny Bill Williams at 22 over Muliaina...? Talk of Mils not reaching 100 test caps is sad, but there is no doubt in my mind he can cover the utility spot considerably better than SBW who is realistically an out and out 2nd 5/8th being fit in where ever. Having both Ali Williams and Anthony Boric on the bench is an absolute joke! Boric is not a blindside flanker, but he is a better lock at the moment than Ali Williams who never really earned his spot. HOW HAS THOMSON EARNED A SPOT AT 8?!?!?! Victor Vito has been quiet, but better than Thomson and there is no good reason why either of the players should not be in the 22, considering they are backrowers and we have two locks.

Henry and co are f*cking losing the plot.

I agree with basically everything you say, but this is still a better team than i was expecting from these selectors.

 

[UilamOsa]

Im going to stick my neck out here and say Thompson and Slade are no where near as bad and a lot of people are aking them out to be.

They are being compared to Carter and Richie, two of the best players in history.

Even if you compare slade to Piri you are talking about a guy with half a dozen games to a true campaigner, no wonder piri looks so much more cool and calm out there he's done it ten times as many times as slade.

Maybe im seeing things but for every "mistake" slade has made in the black jersey i would say he's shown a little bit of class too. the chips and crubbers in behind the line shows so much more skill than donalds run and get tackled move. Far from perfect i admit but surely stills show promiss.

people bag Thompson for giving away penalties...how many does richie give away? fewer im sure but i would guess any non kiwis on here would say he SHOULD get more!

In the end, given the squad they have selected i am more than happy with these guys taking the field. In fact having vito on the bench (and half back is a coin toss for me, all provide something different) is the only change i would make to the team

Personally, I don't compare Slade & Thomson to Carter & McCaw.

They are both okay at test level - but they haven't lit the world on fire given the opportunities that they've had.
I compare Slade to the first fives in NZ at the moment, and whilst he's solid and probably the best of the rest - I think in the matches so far - most people are happy to select Piri over him.

That statement in itself is fairly critical of how he's handled both the pressure and his actual ability. That our previously 2nd ranked half back - is a first choice five eigths.

Thomson, has been given opportunities, not as much as Messam but plenty and he has failed to be a standout. There's not too many people that can cover the ground in NZ like McCaw can, but if we compare Thomson with Kaino in the same position then it's still not even close. No one's asking him to be Richie, but if he can't even get close to a Marty Holah type performance, when Thomson is (arguably) fitter/athletic/faster than he was - then what's the point? Or put it this way:

If one of current top AB's backrow is down, and Thomson had to replace them - what would he add? Based on what's gone on before (and not even including Brisbane) not much.

 

[Dizzy]

i disagree on the comment Nick made that Mils could cover other positions better than SBW. We tried him at centre in 07, look where that got us. Like Toeava, Mils wouldn't do very much at all on the wing. Where as SB's draw factor alone presents an upper hand for a pivotal role. And although I agree alot about the Thomson comment, don't forget these guys get picked based on form and the work they put in at training. Maybe Thomson works harder??

 

[Darwin]

This team is crazy.

Hore can play like a fetcher, but I don't think he has the mobility to be a good option at 7. Sonny Bill Williams at 22 over Muliaina...? Talk of Mils not reaching 100 test caps is sad, but there is no doubt in my mind he can cover the utility spot considerably better than SBW who is realistically an out and out 2nd 5/8th being fit in where ever. Having both Ali Williams and Anthony Boric on the bench is an absolute joke! Boric is not a blindside flanker, but he is a better lock at the moment than Ali Williams who never really earned his spot. HOW HAS THOMSON EARNED A SPOT AT 8?!?!?! Victor Vito has been quiet, but better than Thomson and there is no good reason why either of the players should not be in the 22, considering they are backrowers and we have two locks.

Henry and co are f*cking losing the plot.

Wow, that seems like a massive over-reaction considering you seem to only disagree with one starting spot and a couple of bench spots! It's not as though Henry and co. have picked a completely random team: they have picked basically a full strength team (barring Read), while in contrast France have made a number of interesting selections.

I have no issues at all with Thomson at 8 - he has played very well for the AB's this year when McCaw has played alongside him (and he played pretty well against Japan too..). I don't rate him at all when he has the sole responsibility of an openside flanker, but alongside a genunine '7' like McCaw he can be very effective. McCaw has looked very comfortable off the back the scrum when he has played alongside Thomson. Personally I wouldn't have picked Thomson in the squad at the start of the year, but he has (mostly) impressed me for the AB's this year.

Like you I'm not at all convinced with SBW at 22 - personally I'd prefer Toeava, but I don't think it hurts to give SBW another chance against top class opposition.

 

[Icemn]

what is the big deal about SBW and no22??? does that mean the no22 can only play wing??? or only full back :? or only centre :?

i don't understand :?

 

[Dizzy]

it means squash, it just means SBW is a high profile personality and there is alot of hype made around him and most people dont believe he deserves the amount of praise he does.

 

[nickdnz]

i disagree on the comment Nick made that Mils could cover other positions better than SBW. We tried him at centre in 07, look where that got us. Like Toeava, Mils wouldn't do very much at all on the wing. Where as SB's draw factor alone presents an upper hand for a pivotal role. And although I agree alot about the Thomson comment, don't forget these guys get picked based on form and the work they put in at training. Maybe Thomson works harder??

But what good is drawing in defenders from the wing position? You don't need a distributer at wing! You want someone who can exploit space, not create it.

what is the big deal about SBW and no22??? does that mean the no22 can only play wing??? or only full back :? or only centre :?

i don't understand :?

The 22 jersey is for utility players. SBW is not a utility player. You need to be able to cover wing/fullback/centre which Mils and especially Toeava can do so to a very high level. SBW has not proven he can.

 

[DonBilly]

Well If you look back I didn't actually say anything about the 22 - I mentioned the odd choice of starting someone at 1st five who had never played there before etc.

But seeing as you mentioned it... its not the 22 as much as it is the starting 15.
Servat is one of the best hookers in the world, but he isn't starting??
then you have the likes of Harinordoquy, Heymans and Trinh-Duc on the bench too.

You know- maybe I am wrong, but its seems like possibly; the French aren't playing thier best team, or are foxing.
I guess saturday night will be the litmus test for my theories.

I'll stick by my 30 point scoreline though.

Servat is back from injury and he's still not back at his usual level. Heymans is no more this wonderful winger or FB he used to be. His form improved at the end of last season and this is why he got selected. Harinordoquy has lost to Lakafia the 8 position in his club and has to compete versus Bonnaire for the flanker position. Bonnaire is currently better than Harinordoquy especially in the defense department. Mas and Palisson are injured and won't be able to play before QF, provided France qualifies. Domingo was left at home injured. Barcella is back from injury having not played for one year and is not yet back to his level.

Where's French team is questionable is Traille as FB, in my opinion Médard as FB and Heymans on the wing would be better. The other big question mark is the FH, Parra has very little experience at Test level at that position.

In conclusion maybe not the best best French team but not far from it in the current circumstances.

 

[Saintjay]

Mark my words- this French team is going to get thumped by 30 points.

I'm not saying that in arrogance, I just think they have decided that winning this game isn't that important (hence playing someone at 1st five who hasn't played there internationally before) and that they need to save players for the play-offs against England.

Would not be suprised if this was the same two nations in the final (possibly with different line-ups)

Prehaps both teams have there eyes on the knock out stages. Do all the AB's want to kill themselves against France and then have to battle Australia or the Boks.

It seems to me that the press saying that France have put out there B team just puts more pressure on the AB's. What happens if they lose or get run close by the French B team. Imagine what they A team might do to them.

As for the AB's being 30 points clear. I just can't see it, that is one hell of a score against the best team they have faced so far. It is the first good test to see how good this AB team is. No matter what the game should be a awesome. I think a thumping for France ain't going to happen. Well unless the French can't be arsed, and that would not be a surprise either.