RWC: All Blacks - France (24-09-2011, 15:30)

[Larksea]

so I guess this is our #1 side. Good to see Weepu starting though I'm not sure about Elis on the bench ahead of Cowan. I think that's a horid mistake... And no Mills re: above I have no problems with Daggs ability under the high ball or defense or obviously his running game which is awesome. My issue with Dagg is that he has been making some bad decisions with the ball and he's also been losing the ball in contact alot where Mills is so good at retaining possession and holding the ball when he needs to rather than trying something 50/50 and turning over possession, Mills also still has the ability to make a team pay if they leave the door open and give him a sniff. Mills is also better at linking with his wingers and Dagg sometimes outruns his support and gets isolated.

I'd also select Hore over Mealamu. Hore's man of the match performance over the boks earlier in the season I think means he's now #1 again... his workrate around the field when he is on is comparable to Richie McCaw and if anything he is a reliable source of breakdown turnovers which is the big one for me. McCaw isn't winning lots of turnovers Thomson isn't winning any... Currently Hore is the best source of turnovers in the squad and having him on the field takes pressure off McCaw in that area.

AB's to win easy, importantly they need to step up another notch and more players need to find some form and play with Authority Currently we have Nonu, Kahui and Kaino (and McCaw too who even when you think he's had a quiet game it turns out he's topped all the stats) in great form and I'd like to see more players added to that list.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

You guys really think SBW will get turned inside out??.. Don't forget, up until now the French have only played lower ranked squads and for most of the match have struggled until the last ten minutes..

SBW is playing with arguably some of the best players in the world and since that comment, I'm now begging for Henry to put SBW on the wing so he can show you guys what he is truly made of against your precious Medard/Clerc.

Is SBW an incredibly talented player? Yes.
Is he a world class 12? Yes.
Is he a winger? No.


It took him years to get his positioning etc. right at 12, he was still showing a bit of dodginess there in the Super XV - he's only played wing once, it's incredibly naive to think that a seasoned operator like Clerc won't be able to exploit that fact

 

[Dizzy]

I agree with Dagg losing the ball in contact because he definitely does, but the difference is, he creates opportunities that Mils doesn't. Hopefully he has been working on keeping hold of the ball in contact.

As for Hore, well, I'm still baffled that he wasn't wanted by the Hurricanes. He is arguably the best Hooker in New Zealand rugby. He's like another loose forward.

 

[ranger]

so I guess this is our #1 side. Good to see Weepu starting though I'm not sure about Elis on the bench ahead of Cowan. I think that's a horid mistake... And no Mills re: above I have no problems with Daggs ability under the high ball or defense or obviously his running game which is awesome. My issue with Dagg is that he has been making some bad decisions with the ball and he's also been losing the ball in contact alot where Mills is so good at retaining possession and holding the ball when he needs to rather than trying something 50/50 and turning over possession, Mills also still has the ability to make a team pay if they leave the door open and give him a sniff. Mills is also better at linking with his wingers and Dagg sometimes outruns his support and gets isolated.

I'd also select Hore over Mealamu. Hore's man of the match performance over the boks earlier in the season I think means he's now #1 again... his workrate around the field when he is on is comparable to Richie McCaw and if anything he is a reliable source of breakdown turnovers which is the big one for me. McCaw isn't winning lots of turnovers Thomson isn't winning any... Currently Hore is the best source of turnovers in the squad and having him on the field takes pressure off McCaw in that area.

AB's to win easy, importantly they need to step up another notch and more players need to find some form and play with Authority Currently we have Nonu, Kahui and Kaino (and McCaw too who even when you think he's had a quiet game it turns out he's topped all the stats) in great form and I'd like to see more players added to that list.

Radical thought: Hore as the backup 7. Can't be any worse than Thompson.

 

[Dizzy]

Is SBW an incredibly talented player? Yes.
Is he a world class 12? Yes.
Is he a winger? No.


It took him years to get his positioning etc. right at 12, he was still showing a bit of dodginess there in the Super XV - he's only played wing once, it's incredibly naive to think that a seasoned operator like Clerc won't be able to exploit that fact

Agreed, you won't find anyone willing to argue that fact more than I.
BUT, we can't play SBW in place of Nonu, it's insane. And like I said in another thread, the way the modern game runs, Players chop and change positions in the backline all the time now, so Nonu and SBW could be swapping places now and then.

Now, look, I'm not downing Clerc one bit, but it has been hard for wingers to exploit any defender this tournament. The FACT is, defensive lines are too strong nowadays and wingers aren't given acres of space, especially the All Blacks defense, and then SBW is going to have Smith coming out to aid him. Its factual that Clerc is going to have a very hard time.

 

[Dizzy]

Radical thought: Hore as the backup 7. Can't be any worse than Thompson.

That's as radical as quoting your own post lmao!!..

Bro, I have been saying this since Thompson showed a poor performance against Aus[Radike Samo]

 

[Rhyer]

As for Rhyer's disbelief in Dagg, you shall see on Saturday my man.

I have zero doubt over his attacking potential. I lived in New Zealand for two years so am quite up to date with your rugby and regularly watch the Super 15, the guy is insane, but his defence and as Darwin mentioned his error rate aren't good. I see him more as a left wing than fullback due to this, a left wing can get away with these frailties while making up for it with attack but a fullback can't, you want your fullback to be 100% solid like your life depended on it, Dagg is not that.

 

[Larksea]

Dagg does create opportunities but to say Mills doesn't is not correct in fact I'd say he creates more chances for his wingers and link players than Dagg.

Can anyone honestly say that a bit more x-factor is more important than a mostly mistake free game?

The All Blacks have players that can create chances to score on attack all over the park and some opposition teams the best chance they have against the All Blacks is when the AB's turn the ball over or make a bad decision. I think for 15 you need security first. If anything if Daggs x-factor is needed in the team then he should come in on the wing for Jane.

 

[Rhyer]

That's as radical as quoting your own post lmao!!..

Bro, I have been saying this since Thompson showed a poor performance against Aus[Radike Samo]

To be fair to the bloke, he had a torn bicep? Played on for the All Blacks, he was exposed for his dedication to his team, can't blame a man for that. Still not a great player though.

 

[Dizzy]

Ok, for once I will have to settled with and agreement. I would rather have an error free All Blacks side, than an x-factor, error ridden one[RE: NZ vs SA]

 

[Larksea]

Radical thought: Hore as the backup 7. Can't be any worse than Thompson.

I was thinking the exact same thing, Hore is the closest thing we have in the squad to Richie. Hore is a very smart player too if you ever see the AB's under pressure you will often see McCaw consulting Hore on tactics. If anything I think thompson is just too tall to be a 7. He spends too much time off his feet, too easy to knock over and he sticks out too much.

 

[ranger]

To be fair to the bloke, he had a torn bicep? Played on for the All Blacks, he was exposed for his dedication to his team, can't blame a man for that. Still not a great player though.

Hes a good 6. An exceptional 6. He just can't play anywhere else. He always has and always will be a mediocre 7 at best, we really should have taken Waldrom, Braid, Todd, Latimer or even Cane.

 

[Dizzy]

If anything Thompson is just crap!.. Hes in the same stature as Stephen Donald. Great in Super 15, and against the tier 3 nations. But when it comes to the crunch, he's too much of a liability and produces too many penalties.

 

[Larksea]

Ok, for once I will have to settled with and agreement. I would rather have an error free All Blacks side, than an x-factor, error ridden one[RE: NZ vs SA]

NZ vs. SA being a good example because in that last test the AB's lost to the boks Dagg made a number of brilliant runs but pretty much every single one of them resulted in a turnover. If not for the ball Dagg gave away and the Penalties Thomson gave away the AB's should have won that game.

Giving away possession is something Mills just doesn't do.

 

[Dizzy]

Lol, didn't realise how bad my England was in that post until I re-read it in your quote lol..

Yes I am inclined to agree with you now. Maybe Henry is just doing more rotation then?. The race is still on between Dagg and Mils and it's not at the business end of the tournament yet.

 

[ranger]

NZ vs. SA being a good example because in that last test the AB's lost to the boks Dagg made a number of brilliant runs but pretty much every single one of them resulted in a turnover. If not for the ball Dagg gave away and the Penalties Thomson gave away the AB's should have won that game.

Giving away possession is something Mills just doesn't do.

Mills has been guilty of extinguishing attacking opportunites by backing his old legs instead of passing out to the young guns though.. Thats my only concern with him, which is actually a huge concern

 

[Rhyer]

Lol, didn't realise how bad my England was in that post until I re-read it in your quote lol..

Yes I am inclined to agree with you now. Maybe Henry is just doing more rotation then?. The race is still on between Dagg and Mils and it's not at the business end of the tournament yet.

Please do and before you go on saying how crap Mils is, just watch All Blacks vs Boks when they beat them 40-7 to see how solid Mils was and how many tries he set up and great runs. He links up far more than Dagg and I think he set up 3 tries? Plus great passes to change the angle of the run to get great running gains. All that while being the best defensive fullback.

 

[Surefire]

Mark my words- this French team is going to get thumped by 30 points.

I'm not saying that in arrogance, I just think they have decided that winning this game isn't that important (hence playing someone at 1st five who hasn't played there internationally before) and that they need to save players for the play-offs against England.

Would not be suprised if this was the same two nations in the final (possibly with different line-ups)

I will

Dismissing the desire of the French team to win is arrogance, even with the disclaimer that it is not being said in arrogance. However that seems to be the theme with the NZ public since the French team has been announced. If the ABs win it is because they played better, have quality players throughout and deserved to win. Not b/c the French gave up on winning this game.
I am not a fan of the Parra decision, but as some posters have stated, who else is there? Also which "A" side players are they resting? This unpredictable gamble might be what can win us the match or as you predict get "thumped by 30".

Either way we will see and I will be one of the first to either congratulate you & the ABs on their victory or.........well you did say mark your words.

 

[Dizzy]

Please do and before you go on saying how crap Mils is, just watch All Blacks vs Boks when they beat them 40-7 to see how solid Mils was and how many tries he set up and great runs. He links up far more than Dagg and I think he set up 3 tries? Plus great passes to change the angle of the run to get great running gains. All that while being the best defensive fullback.

You'd die before I say Mils is crap. I rate Mils highly, but Dagg is exceptionally brilliant and has a certain Christian Cullen vibe to him. The only problem is his error rate, which can be worked on.
I have no problem with Mils at all, I know more than anyone how safe he is, thing is, I'm a Hurricanes fan and have been since I can remember. The Canes have always played with flair and that is what attracts me. To see someone bring that type of play back to the All Blacks excites me.

The only downer I have on Mils, is that at times instead of passing he tries to go himself and squashes oppotunities. He doesn't do this regularly but he does at times. Other than that, he is a great player.

 

[Rhyer]

I will

Dismissing the desire of the French team to win is arrogance, even with the disclaimer that it is not being said in arrogance. However that seems to be the theme with the NZ public since the French team has been announced. If the ABs win it is because they played better, have quality players throughout and deserved to win. Not b/c the French gave up on winning this game.
I am not a fan of the Parra decision, but as some posters have stated, who else is there? Also which "A" side players are they resting? This unpredictable gamble might be what can win us the match or as you predict get "thumped by 30".

Either way we will see and I will be one of the first to either congratulate you & the ABs on their victory or.........well you did say mark your words.

''A side''? You think we have one? All Blacks fans complain about their lack of consistency, what about France! I really like our coach but he chops and changes all the time.