RWC: All Blacks - France (24-09-2011, 15:30)

[TRF_Olyy]

Agreed, you won't find anyone willing to argue that fact more than I.
BUT, we can't play SBW in place of Nonu, it's insane. And like I said in another thread, the way the modern game runs, Players chop and change positions in the backline all the time now, so Nonu and SBW could be swapping places now and then.

Now, look, I'm not downing Clerc one bit, but it has been hard for wingers to exploit any defender this tournament. The FACT is, defensive lines are too strong nowadays and wingers aren't given acres of space, especially the All Blacks defense, and then SBW is going to have Smith coming out to aid him. Its factual that Clerc is going to have a very hard time.

We're in agreement then, pretty much

 

[Dizzy]

Most definitely. Dont you just love when debates result in agreement instead of constant opinionating?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Most definitely. Dont you just love when debates result in agreement instead of constant opinionating?

No, I hate it.

 

[FlukeArtist]

I will

Dismissing the desire of the French team to win is arrogance, even with the disclaimer that it is not being said in arrogance. However that seems to be the theme with the NZ public since the French team has been announced. If the ABs win it is because they played better, have quality players throughout and deserved to win. Not b/c the French gave up on winning this game.
I am not a fan of the Parra decision, but as some posters have stated, who else is there? Also which "A" side players are they resting? This unpredictable gamble might be what can win us the match or as you predict get "thumped by 30".

Either way we will see and I will be one of the first to either congratulate you & the ABs on their victory or.........well you did say mark your words.

Actually mate- it would only be arrogance if I said the All Blacks were far superior to the French, and our rugby is greater than yours etc etc.

 

[Dizzy]

Well then, let's discuss another topic. Hore in for McCaw's backup??.. What do you think?

 

[Surefire]

Actually mate- it would only be arrogance if I said the All Blacks were far superior to the French, and our rugby is greater than yours etc etc.

OK, I can accept that.

Please let me know which players you believe should be in the French 22 to make this an "A" side.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

[TABLE="class: grid"]
[TR][TD] All Blacks [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] France [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Israel Dagg [/TD][TD] 15 [/TD][TD] Damian Traille [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Cory Jane [/TD][TD] 14 [/TD][TD] Vincent Clerc [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Conrad Smith [/TD][TD] 13 [/TD][TD] Aurélien Rougerie [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Ma'a Nonu [/TD][TD] 12 [/TD][TD] Maxime Mermox [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Richard Kahui [/TD][TD] 11 [/TD][TD] Maxime Médard [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Dan Carter [/TD][TD] 10 [/TD][TD] Morgan Parra [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Piri Weepu [/TD][TD] 9 [/TD][TD] Dimitri Yachvili [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Adam Thomson [/TD][TD] 8 [/TD][TD] Louis Picamoles [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Richie McCaw [/TD][TD] 7 [/TD][TD] Julien Bonnaire [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Jerome Kaino [/TD][TD] 6 [/TD][TD] Thierry Dusautoir [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Sam Whitelock [/TD][TD] 5 [/TD][TD] Lionel Nallet [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Brad Thorn [/TD][TD] 4 [/TD][TD] Pascal Pape [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Owen Franks [/TD][TD] 3 [/TD][TD] Luc Ducalcon [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Keven Mealamu [/TD][TD] 2 [/TD][TD] Dimitri Szarzewski [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Tony Woodcock [/TD][TD] 1 [/TD][TD] Jean-Baptiste Poux [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Andrew Hore [/TD][TD] 16 [/TD][TD] William Servat [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Ben Franks [/TD][TD] 17 [/TD][TD] Fabian Barcella [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Ali Williams [/TD][TD] 18 [/TD][TD] Julien Pierre [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Anthony Boric [/TD][TD] 19 [/TD][TD] Imanol Harinordoquy [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Andy Ellis [/TD][TD] 20 [/TD][TD] Francois Trinh-Duc [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Colin Slade [/TD][TD] 21 [/TD][TD] Fabrice Estebanez [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Sonny Bill Williams [/TD][TD] 22 [/TD][TD] Cédric Heymans [/TD][/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Sam Owen]

All Blacks at home against the very respected Les Bleus....Ill go for All Blacks by 14+

 

[markshaw]

All im gonna say is, should have played mills on the bench with SBW at 21 and have Piri cover 10. See how it goes anyway?

 

[UilamOsa]

This obsession with SBW may cost us the World Cup. He's a dynamic 2nd Five but definitely not class.
And then to pick him as Wing after 1 game against a far lesser opponent.

Dagg is exceptional but remember what they did to Dougie Howlett in Cardiff - NOTHING.

Pure, Genuine and Bona Fide CLASS sitting on the wrong side of the white lines.

I'm losing my faith in this coaching trio. 4 years of experimenting and we have Thomson & Slade to show for it.

 

[FlukeArtist]

OK, I can accept that.

Please let me know which players you believe should be in the French 22 to make this an "A" side.

Well If you look back I didn't actually say anything about the 22 - I mentioned the odd choice of starting someone at 1st five who had never played there before etc.

But seeing as you mentioned it... its not the 22 as much as it is the starting 15.
Servat is one of the best hookers in the world, but he isn't starting??
then you have the likes of Harinordoquy, Heymans and Trinh-Duc on the bench too.

You know- maybe I am wrong, but its seems like possibly; the French aren't playing thier best team, or are foxing.
I guess saturday night will be the litmus test for my theories.

I'll stick by my 30 point scoreline though.

 

[The Rugby Shadow]

All Blacks by 18 www.therugbyshadow.com

Game on.
Piri Weepu gains the #1 halfback spot

The All Blacks selectors have signalled their intentions with the naming of the All Blacks side to play France in a crucial Pool A decider at Eden Park on Saturday night.
For weeks now,we have been asking for our top side to be selected and to give them much needed game time and momentum leading in to the knockout stages of this World Cup.
Now we have it.
Piri Weepu gets the halfback start with Andy Ellis on the bench and the sadly out of form Jimmy Cowan fails to make the 22.Rather than have Weepu as cover for Dan Carter,the selectors have opted for Colin Slade on the bench with Sonny Bill Williams rounding out the back reserves.
That means that there is no room for Mils Muliaina who makes way for Israel Dagg at fullback.
Up front it is all largely predictable with Sam Whitelock edging out Ali Williams in the second row,and Adam Thomson given the temporary boots of Kieran Read at #8.
Barring injury,this side should,on the whole,see us through to the final,although I would question the wisdom of playing this side for 5 straight weeks.
The alternate path is to make wholesale changes for the match against Canada,then re-introduce this top XV for the 1/4s,thus ensuring a week off after France,then 3 weeks of intensity and 100% absolute committment.
It remains to be seen what plan the 3 wise men adopt.
But this game on Saturday night will be a defining moment for this All Black side.
Four years on from the horrors of Cardiff,and up against the same side who bundled us out of that 2007 tournament,this team knows that only a complete performance will suffice.
There is no room for error.No time for chances.A sub standard performance at this stage of the tournament could be catastrophic,as the tinkering of selections can no longer continue.
This is our time,and it starts in earnest Saturday night.
All Blacks:
Israel Dagg, Cory Jane, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Richard Kahui, Dan Carter, Piri
Weepu, Adam Thomson,Richie McCaw (capt), Jerome Kaino, Sam Whitelock, Brad
Thorn, Owen Franks, Keven Mealamu, Tony Woodock. Reserves:
Andrew Hore, Ben Franks, Ali Williams, Anthony Boric, Andy Ellis, Colin Slade,
Sonny Bill Williams.

 

[Dizzy]

I'm losing my faith in this coaching trio. 4 years of experimenting and we have Thomson & Slade to show for it.

Hard not to agree with you here.

This obsession with SBW may cost us the World Cup. He's a dynamic 2nd Five but definitely not class.
And then to pick him as Wing after 1 game against a far lesser opponent.

It's certainly not obsession. If it was obsession, everyone would be saying it's ludicrous that he isn't starting ahead of Nonu.
I put it this way, if Sonny Bill wasn't as high profile as he is and was just a normal rugby player, the peoples perspective of him would be different. I'm definitely not saying SBW is on the same level as Nonu and Smith as far as class goes[because I know he isn't] but there is not one other midfielder that could oust Williams from his berth as being the next in line. Some could argue Fruean, but Williams is safer on defence where as Fruean goes begging now and then, you could even argue Ranger, but he is possibly THEE most error-ridden back in New Zealand. And neither of them present the type of X-Factor that SBW does which is his ability to distribute and put players into space.

Now no one is saying pick him as a wing, because I'd much rather have Jane and Kahui there. But an impact on the wing off the bench is definitely what I am backing when it comes to this guy.

 

[Shaggy]

All im gonna say is, should have played mills on the bench with SBW at 21 and have Piri cover 10. See how it goes anyway?

While i'm okay with the line up named, but i'd be okay with your suggestion if Piri was on the bench ... i'm not convinced he could play for 80 minutes, regardless of what position he's playing

 

[james5000]

I am very happy with this team, they better keep it on game day.

I find it funny people can moan about Daggs selection over Mills. Dagg is the future, Mills is the past get used to it.

Daggs defence is solid as a rock, he has great positional play, he has everything you ever wanted in a fullback.
He will become the greatest fullback NZ has ever had, Mills will be forgotten, quote me, you heard it here first!!!!

 

[Dizzy]

I am very happy with this team, they better keep it on game day.

I find it funny people can moan about Daggs selection over Mills. Dagg is the future, Mills is the past get used to it.

Daggs defence is solid as a rock, he has great positional play, he has everything you ever wanted in a fullback.
He will become the greatest fullback NZ has ever had, Mills will be forgotten, quote me, you heard it here first!!!!

I think it'd be hard for him to take that ***le from Christian Cullen.

 

[james5000]

I think it'd be hard for him to take that ***le from Christian Cullen.

Cullen was brilliant and had a very good career. I know Dagg hasn't done much yet, but he has a whole career left to achieve greatness.
You can't compare their careers yet, it wouldn't be fair. I just see so much potential in Dagg, he has everything, i am confident he will reach his potential.

 

[Surefire]

Well If you look back I didn't actually say anything about the 22 - I mentioned the odd choice of starting someone at 1st five who had never played there before etc.

But seeing as you mentioned it... its not the 22 as much as it is the starting 15.
Servat is one of the best hookers in the world, but he isn't starting??
then you have the likes of Harinordoquy, Heymans and Trinh-Duc on the bench too.

You know- maybe I am wrong, but its seems like possibly; the French aren't playing thier best team, or are foxing.
I guess saturday night will be the litmus test for my theories.

I'll stick by my 30 point scoreline though.

No worries!

I asked a question and you answered it so fair enough. The merits of players starting or being on the bench can be discussed about both teams. Servat has just recovered from injury, Trinh-Duc off form etc. etc. I see just as many or more posts disagreeing with the AB selection, I guess that is what makes test rugby so much fun to watch. You are correct Saturday will answer a lot of questions.

Cant Wait, the good thing about watching the game in the U.S. is that it's late and there are no distractions! Wife & Kids asleep just me and the beers!

 

[Sony_PS3_Williams]

I can see this game being a lot more closer than people may think. It's going to be interesting how the french cope at the breakdown. I would say NZ to win by 10

 

[james5000]

Cant Wait, the good thing about watching the game in the U.S. is that it's late and there are no distractions! Wife & Kids asleep just me and the beers!

Haha nice