Russia and the West

[j'nuh]

Turkey illegally occupy and maintain the legally invalid Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus.

Turkey ventures into Syrian airspace, gets a plane shot down and Ergodan says that "short term border violations can never be a pretext for an attack".
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...pace-violation-does-not-justify-a6748146.html

Turkey violated Greek airspace 2,244 times in 2014.
https://www.rt.com/news/323429-greece-turkey-airspace-violations/

The double-standards are ridiculous. And yes, perhaps Turkey had some kind of legal right to shoot the plane down*, but the plane posed no threat to Turkey and the diplomatic mess it has created has not been worth it. Turkey clearly has ulterior motives; they want to bring the rest of the world into the Syrian dispute. We should ignore them. Also, a person died in this for Turkey to play political pot shots at Russia.

* But I'm not sure on this. Did Turkey fire within the 10 seconds that the plane was in Turkish borders? Are you even allowed to shoot down a plane for violating airspace when it poses no threat? Was the plane even ever in Turkish borders?

 

[austingtir]

Turkey said that the Russian plane was warned 10 times 5 minutes before it was shot down. They say the contact was received and responded to so they would have identified the nationality of the plane

So what your saying is you'll take Turkeys word at face value over Russias? Good luck with that.

The turkish story does not add up. When you look at their own figures that they've stated (directly to NATO i might add) that plane would of had to of been doing something like 250mph or something ridiculous like that for it to of been within their border for 17 seconds as they claim!

Lavrov reckons it was a planned provocation and I agree.
https://nz.news.yahoo.com/world/a/3...an-to-go-to-war-with-turkey-foreign-minister/

The Russian NAVIGATOR claims he was never in turkish territory and knows the area like the back of his hand.
https://www.rt.com/news/323431-saved-pilot-turkish-su24/

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Ummn, do you mean the Gallipoli landings? ... because that was 100 years ago this year. Have the Turks forgotten? No, they commemorate with us, and allow access to the site ever year.

Even Ataturk, who commanded the Turks said

In 1934 Atatürk wrote a tribute to the Anzacs killed at Gallipoli: (https://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/ataturk/)

"Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives ... You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours ... You, the mothers who sent their sons from faraway countries, wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well."

Sounds like a country that has forgiven, along time ago to me ... just for the record, I think all parties have their own agendas in this mess, so I wouldn't trust any country/organisation 100%
​

You can feel free to believe what you believe but I certainly wouldnt trust a Turk. To me its the same thing that there would still be a large number of NZer's which harbour bad feelings towards the German and Japanese because of ww1 and 2 past down throught the generations from what their parents and GP told them. If you think a large number of Turks havent had the same thing past down through them I think your a little naive TBH. Just because 100 years later we can go and have a memorial service over there doesnt mean jack **** to me.

Politics is politics until your stabbed in the back as Russia is claiming to have been.

FYI: # 1 Did you know the Turkish president used to go on holidays with Assad and his wife and co? Putin and all these three were very very chummy once upon a time. Things change! Erodogan and his mates want full control of the oil and gas pipelines though Syria thats what all this is really about!

FYI: # 2 Germany and Russia once had a treaty to carve up europe that Hitler tore up and invaded the baltic states and Russia anyway when he thought Stalin wasnt paying attention.

Russia is doing the right thing by seriously beefing up their weaponry in Syria. Give an inch and these Turks (ISIS) will take a mile!

 

[austingtir]

Seriously who believes this ****!!! AID CONVOY from Turkey. What a complete load of ******. If it said ISIS aid convoy that would be more like it.

http://www.dailysabah.com/syrian-cr...-in-northwestern-syrian-town-of-azaz-7-killed

 

[nickdnz]

Weird austingtir that you have said you would like to live in Germany - yet you continue to think Turkish people are holding grudges from 100 years ago.

"I certainly wouldn't trust a Turk".

Fantastic bit of backwards thinking from a backwards and bigoted poster.

 

[austingtir]

Weird austingtir that you have said you would like to live in Germany - yet you continue to think Turkish people are holding grudges from 100 years ago.

"I certainly wouldn't trust a Turk".

Fantastic bit of backwards thinking from a backwards and bigoted poster.

Whats wrong with Germany? Last I looked they aint helping ISIS invade Syria. Merkel is an idiot though I'll give you that (but hey I cant really think of a western leader I have any genuine respect for these days).

And obviously if I was to live in Germany it would be somewhere near the Nurburgring. Thats my only real interest in that country if you must know.


If the Turks are all saints why are they directly supporting ISIS? Its totally irrefutable that they are or are you going to try to tell me they aint?

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http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/meet-man-who-funds-isis-bilal-erdogan-son-turkeys-president

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Its funny how in these conflicts you can nearly always find high ranking officials sons with their fingers in the pie. In Turkey we have Erdogans son. In Ukraine we have Joe Bidens son.

 

[Gavin]

So what your saying is you'll take Turkeys word at face value over Russias? Good luck with that.

The turkish story does not add up. When you look at their own figures that they've stated (directly to NATO i might add) that plane would of had to of been doing something like 250mph or something ridiculous like that for it to of been within their border for 17 seconds as they claim

Believe me I don't trust the Turkish account. That was what I was saying bit perhaps misunderstood.

ISIL created by USA, funded by selling oil to Turkey.

 

[Vladimir12]

Russia will always have a cold war with the United States.

We have different ideas about own safety.

Russia feels secure with a strong army and that is enough, and the US does not feel be safe when someone on the planet could potentially destroy them.

Russia and the United States can enter into short-term alliance, as it was during the Second World War, but then still go back to the opposition.

It was the same with the British Empire.

I am sure.

 

[Vladimir12]

My only thoughts were with the people who were on the aircraft. I do not hate Putin & Russia like you assume.

And you're spared the passengers of the aircraft destroyed the Ukraine 10 years ago?

I think that you did not even hear about it!

The trouble is, this is a regular thing from the Russians, there have been 39 high risk incidents with NATO countries involving Russia since March 2014. That's the reason my empathy regarding this incident is with Turkey. If it were not for these constant incursions, Russia could have had sympathy from the West.

Have a read:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...litary-and-nato-since-march-2014-9851309.html

Also, if a Turkish plane flew over Russian land, there would be no question that it would be shot down, probably without warning.

Listen, NATO aircraft are flying around Russia and nothing!

Until 1960 US spy planes flew over the Soviet Union, and they could not be destroyed!

Read about Francis Gary Powers!

 

[McTallshort]

Russia will always have a cold war with the United States.

We have different ideas about own safety.

Russia feels secure with a strong army and that is enough, and the US does not feel be safe when someone on the planet could potentially destroy them.

Russia and the United States can enter into short-term alliance, as it was during the Second World War, but then still go back to the opposition.

It was the same with the British Empire.

I am sure.

You are correct the yanks are never happy unless they believe there is a horrible bad guy out there wanting to destroy peace, justice and the American way!

Justifies their gun laws.

 

[Vladimir12]

lol come on, they're nearly all in foreign airspace or waters. It's an endless sea of provocative b/s from them.

Right now there's a Russian submarine off the coast of Scotland which the UK is struggling with http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...to-hunt-Russian-sub-lurking-off-Scotland.html

They're constant with this stuff, and for that reason I have no sympathy with their jet getting shot down (other than to the pilots who were reportedly murdered on descent).

Undoubtedly Russia threatens you!

Just look at the world map!:lol:

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You are correct the yanks are never happy unless they believe there is a horrible bad guy out there wanting to destroy peace, justice and the American way!

Justifies their gun laws.

Therefore, we have a constant cold war.

Communist Russia or the Democratic ...


Rudyard Kipling

The Ballad of East and West


Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face, tho' they come from the ends of the earth!

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See told you. S400's even!!

https://www.rt.com/news/323379-s400-russia-syria-airbase/


Nobody is going to win this **** except Russia in Syria end of story.


Its a no win situation for the west to escalate this. Russia will start dishing out nukes and s300 rockets to Iran, China and Syria maybe even North Korea willy nilly if they get pushed to far on this.

If Turkey attacks on land, then 3-4 hours would be at our base in Syria.

The Syrian army will not be able to stop them from Russia there is also nothing.

C-400 should work in a complex in Syria is battery without cover.

 

[Jaguares]

What about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYuD8bWhaDE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Vladimir12]

What about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYuD8bWhaDE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

You suggest to hit this thing for Turkey?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT-2PM2_Topol-M

Now the West and Russia possess overwhelming military superiority over the Muslim world.

And if it was the other way around?

In the West it would be oil and Muslims modern weapons.

I think that we would have to convert to Islam or be killed us ...

 

[Jaguares]

You suggest to hit this thing for Turkey?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT-2PM2_Topol-M

Now the West and Russia possess overwhelming military superiority over the Muslim world.

And if it was the other way around?

In the West it would be oil and Muslims modern weapons.

I think that we would have to convert to Islam or be killed us ...

For USA?

I'm just saying that Americans are afraid of it

 

[YoungScud]

You are correct the yanks are never happy unless they believe there is a horrible bad guy out there wanting to destroy peace, justice and the American way!
Justifies their gun laws.

There are several organisations and people who are constantly trying to do just that. The Republican Party, the NRA, Donald Trump and Texas to name but a few.

 

[McTallshort]

There are several organisations and people who are constantly trying to do just that. The Republican Party, the NRA, Donald Trump and Texas to name but a few.

Yes but those organisations think they are protecting truth, justice and the American way. It will all end in tears

 

[Vladimir12]

For USA?

I'm just saying that Americans are afraid of it

They have a similar thing for us!

Just that would destroy the world together!

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Guys, read the inaugural speech of the Presidents of the United States!



America - is the main instrument of God in modern history; Americans
God's chosen people, the New Israel, he has made the outcome across the ocean and created a "city on a hill", which serves as a guiding light for the nations that have chosen the path of democracy.

Open your eyes, what Ayatollah longer dangerous?

From Tehran or Washington?:lol:

 

[Vladimir12]

In the ass this policy.


Soon will be shown a new film version of "War and Peace" by Tolstoy, it will be interesting to see.

[video]https://youtu.be/Y3f-AfiPgQE[/video]

I hope gay in the movie will not be ...

 

[Colombia]

And you're spared the passengers of the aircraft destroyed the Ukraine 10 years ago?

I think that you did not even hear about it!

Can you link me to the incident you're talking about?

 

[Vladimir12]

Can you link me to the incident you're talking about?

Not 10, but 15 years have passed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

Time passes quickly ...

 

[YoungScud]

Not 10, but 15 years have passed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

Time passes quickly ...

Yes. Yes, you're right. It's been around 32 years since Korean Airlines 007 was shot down by a Soviet fighter.