Russia and the West

[austingtir]

lol come on, they're nearly all in foreign airspace or waters. It's an endless sea of provocative b/s from them.

Right now there's a Russian submarine off the coast of Scotland which the UK is struggling with http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...to-hunt-Russian-sub-lurking-off-Scotland.html

They're constant with this stuff, and for that reason I have no sympathy with their jet getting shot down (other than to the pilots who were reportedly murdered on descent).

Oh so the UK is worried about "Ghost submarines" now like the swedish? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33684715

I mean FFS they are telling us theres a submarine off their coast and they obviously dont appear to have the sensors or monitoring equipment to know if its there or not? Yet they probably have a fleet of submarines in port rusting away?? How stupid are you?? Its a submarine the whole point of the thing is to go places undetected!

And the incident where the su-24 suposedly buzzed a US warship in the blacksea. Both of them are just as bad as each other! The US is constantly conducting war games in the black sea what do you think's likely to happen when they do that!? It all works both ways its not one sided like you see it.

 

[McTallshort]

So you must be getting paid by CIA back handers? Mossad? Am I getting close yet??

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So the Turks have never invaded Syrias airspace? If I was a turkmen in the villages across the border in Syria about now id be loading my donkey up and heading back across the border right quick. They be all dead men walking imo.

If I was Putin id be carpet bombing the **** out of that area right about now.... Well once the pilots are confirmed dead anyway.....

How's he going to do that with the Turkish air force shooting his planes down?

 

[austingtir]

How's he going to do that with the Turkish air force shooting his planes down?

su-24 and 25's are old as balls they are practically defenseless against any modern fighter jet in particular if they might not know they are about to be shot down.

Russia has said all bombers will now have an escort of fighters. I would be very very surprised if Turkey is prepared to play this game of chicken twice against better machinery than theirs!

 

[McTallshort]

su-24 and 25's are old as balls they are practically defenseless against any modern fighter jet in particular if they might not know they are about to be shot down.

Russia has said all bombers will now have an escort of fighters. I would be very very surprised if Turkey is prepared to play this game of chicken twice against better machinery than theirs!

Better than theirs? How, also the Turks have more aircraft at the point of conflict and a large and sophisticated air defence system. The Russians would be very stupid to escalate things given there is also other NATO aircraft in the area.

 

[austingtir]

Better than theirs? How, also the Turks have more aircraft at the point of conflict and a large and sophisticated air defence system. The Russians would be very stupid to escalate things given there is also other NATO aircraft in the area.

Maybe they have more aircraft to throw away. ONE single big russian missile cruiser is heading towards the area with the capability of taking out large numbers of planes and all sorts of other stuff by itself. If the Russians have s300's on the ground Turkey wouldnt even dare cross the border with those f16's. the su-30 is a very capable plane and more than a match for f16's even though its a multi roll jet.

If the Russians now bring down their even newer jets (latest model migs and su's with ridiculous radar range on their weaponry Turkeys f16's would be like a turkey shoot.

Russian jets are some of the best in the world if not the the best and their missile systems are the best.

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Its turkey that is the aggressor here they are trying to draw NATO into this conflict. Luckily as we can see most NATO members are far to chicken **** to get involved in this ridiculous bickering as they know Turkey is just as much at fault as Russia or even more so.

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Theres no doubt in my mind that Turkey knew what they were doing when they shot down that russian jet. They likely also knew the turkmen on the ground had US rockets capable of shooting down the russian support helicopter aswell.

https://www.rt.com/news/323369-turkey-downed-russian-jet/


All they had to do was escort the russian jet out of thier airspace their is no justification for shooting down a plane that comes in your border in a non threatening manner for 17 seconds.

 

[McTallshort]

Maybe they have more aircraft to throw away. ONE single big russian missile cruiser is heading towards the area with the capability of taking out large numbers of planes and all sorts of other stuff by itself. If the Russians have s300's on the ground Turkey wouldnt even dare cross the border with those f16's. the su-30 is a very capable plane and more than a match for f16's even though its a multi roll jet.

If the Russians now bring down their even newer jets (latest model migs and su's with ridiculous radar range on their weaponry Turkeys f16's would be like a turkey shoot.

Russian jets are some of the best in the world if not the the best and their missile systems are the best.

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Its turkey that is the aggressor here they are trying to draw NATO into this conflict. Luckily as we can see most NATO members are far to chicken **** to get involved in this ridiculous bickering as they know Turkey is just as much at fault as Russia or even more so.

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Theres no doubt in my mind that Turkey knew what they were doing when they shot down that russian jet. They likely also knew the turkmen on the ground had US rockets capable of shooting down the russian support helicopter aswell.

https://www.rt.com/news/323369-turkey-downed-russian-jet/


All they had to do was escort the russian jet out of thier airspace their is no justification for shooting down a plane that comes in your border in a non threatening manner for 17 seconds.

They repeatedly told the aircraft to turn back and it didn't, given the Turks and Syrians have come to blows in the past over the same airspace the Russians have been either stupid or very arrogant to think they could just continue to ignore warnings from the Turks.

The Russians have been playing this game for a number of years and its had its fingers burnt.

 

[austingtir]

They repeatedly told the aircraft to turn back and it didn't, given the Turks and Syrians have come to blows in the past over the same airspace the Russians have been either stupid or very arrogant to think they could just continue to ignore warnings from the Turks.

The Russians have been playing this game for a number of years and its had its fingers burnt.

https://www.rt.com/news/323377-russian-pilot-saved-syria/

Perhaps now we'll hear the Russian side rather than the BS that turkey is trying to put out.

I trust Russia more than I trust the Turks if you cant tell. How and why that country ever got NATO membership is beyond me. Thousands of ANZACS and britons died trying to invade that country less than 80 years ago do you think the Turks forget that?? They are not to be trusted!

 

[McTallshort]

https://www.rt.com/news/323377-russian-pilot-saved-syria/

Perhaps now we'll hear the Russian side rather than the BS that turkey is trying to put out.

I trust Russia more than I trust the Turks if you cant tell. How and why that country ever got NATO membership is beyond me. Thousands of ANZACS and britons died trying to invade that country less than 80 years ago do you think the Turks forget that?? They are not to be trusted!

It became a member because of Soviet expansionism after WW2. Thousands of Anzac and British troops died fighting the Germans take it you don't trust them either.

 

[austingtir]

It became a member because of Soviet expansionism after WW2. Thousands of Anzac and British troops died fighting the Germans take it you don't trust them either.

The Soviets and the Nazis are both gone but that doesnt mean anyone should forget what happened or try to twist the truth about what happened as we find in todays western society.

 

[McTallshort]

The Soviets and the Nazis are both gone but that doesnt mean anyone should forget what happened or try to twist the truth about what happened as we find in todays western society.

Have you been drinking?

 

[austingtir]

Have you been drinking?

No but this made me laugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctirIlbRpTw

 

[McTallshort]

No but this made me laugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctirIlbRpTw

 

[j'nuh]

Turkey are wrong in this one.

The plane passed over the smallest jut of land imaginable. It took "moments" to pass over.

The plane was downed in Syrian territory. If Putin isn't lying, then the plane was hit air-to-air, which means that a Turkish plane followed the Russian plane into Syrian territory in order to intercept it. That's not defending your own airspace. You can no longer claim self-defence after the danger has passed. They should have resolved the incident diplomatically.

Turkey oppose the Syrian government. Russia support it. Turkey are trying to use their links with NATO to drag the rest of us into this. They are looking for a fight.

Meanwhile, Turkey are funding the Turkmen that shot and killed the Russian pilot who was ejecting from their plane, a war crime. These links need scrutiny.

 

[austingtir]

See told you. S400's even!!

https://www.rt.com/news/323379-s400-russia-syria-airbase/


Nobody is going to win this **** except Russia in Syria end of story.


Its a no win situation for the west to escalate this. Russia will start dishing out nukes and s300 rockets to Iran, China and Syria maybe even North Korea willy nilly if they get pushed to far on this.

 

[j'nuh]

Sorry, got something wrong.

Russia were warned before entering Turkish airspace, and it is possible that Turkey launched the missile as the Russian plane entered the Turkish border, but the missile only struck once Russia had left the border. In this case Turkey had the legal right to fire.

That said, even if the Turkish version of events is true, the Russian plane was over Turkey for 10 seconds, on a direct line to Northern Syria, and there were no targets of note that Russia could have targeted. Even with the legal right, it is diplomatically ridiculous to shoot the plane.

Also,Ergodan, the Turkish leader has even previously said that "a short term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack" when a Turkish plane was shot down after straying into Syrian airspace back in 2012.

 

[Shaggy]

https://www.rt.com/news/323377-russian-pilot-saved-syria/

Perhaps now we'll hear the Russian side rather than the BS that turkey is trying to put out.

I trust Russia more than I trust the Turks if you cant tell. How and why that country ever got NATO membership is beyond me. Thousands of ANZACS and britons died trying to invade that country less than 80 years ago do you think the Turks forget that?? They are not to be trusted!

Ummn, do you mean the Gallipoli landings? ... because that was 100 years ago this year. Have the Turks forgotten? No, they commemorate with us, and allow access to the site ever year.

Even Ataturk, who commanded the Turks said

In 1934 Atatürk wrote a tribute to the Anzacs killed at Gallipoli: (https://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/ataturk/)

"Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives ... You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours ... You, the mothers who sent their sons from faraway countries, wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well."

Sounds like a country that has forgiven, along time ago to me ... just for the record, I think all parties have their own agendas in this mess, so I wouldn't trust any country/organisation 100%
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[Colombia]

Oh so the UK is worried about "Ghost submarines" now like the swedish? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33684715

I mean FFS they are telling us theres a submarine off their coast and they obviously dont appear to have the sensors or monitoring equipment to know if its there or not? Yet they probably have a fleet of submarines in port rusting away?? How stupid are you?? Its a submarine the whole point of the thing is to go places undetected!

And the incident where the su-24 suposedly buzzed a US warship in the blacksea. Both of them are just as bad as each other! The US is constantly conducting war games in the black sea what do you think's likely to happen when they do that!? It all works both ways its not one sided like you see it.

Bro you'd change your tune pretty fast if Russia was invading NZ airspace or sending subs up your coastline because best believe if you were a little bit closer they'd be doing it.

How stupid are you??

Not stupid enough to continue a conversation with someone who speaks to me in that manner. Adios amigo.

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Sorry, got something wrong.

Russia were warned before entering Turkish airspace, and it is possible that Turkey launched the missile as the Russian plane entered the Turkish border, but the missile only struck once Russia had left the border. In this case Turkey had the legal right to fire.

That said, even if the Turkish version of events is true, the Russian plane was over Turkey for 10 seconds, on a direct line to Northern Syria, and there were no targets of note that Russia could have targeted. Even with the legal right, it is diplomatically ridiculous to shoot the plane.

Also,Ergodan, the Turkish leader has even previously said that "a short term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack" when a Turkish plane was shot down after straying into Syrian airspace back in 2012.

Repeat violations, the Russians do this constantly. This time they pushed it too far, ignored repeats warnings. Putin played with fire and got burnt.

 

[Gavin]

What about Turkey creating their buffer zone in Syrian territory?

Also the plane was targeted inside Syrian territory so something doesn't add up to me.

Can you imagine the uproar the USA would be having if Iran had shot down a USA plane when no war between the countries is happening? Especially for just straying into a different airspace - surely the Turks could tell it was a Russian jet

 

[McTallshort]

What about Turkey creating their buffer zone in Syrian territory?

Also the plane was targeted inside Syrian territory so something doesn't add up to me.

Can you imagine the uproar the USA would be having if Iran had shot down a USA plane when no war between the countries is happening? Especially for just straying into a different airspace - surely the Turks could tell it was a Russian jet

Yes a war jet doing 500 mph is really easy to identify particularly when the Syrians have the same planes.

 

[Gavin]

Yes a war jet doing 500 mph is really easy to identify particularly when the Syrians have the same planes.

Turkey said that the Russian plane was warned 10 times 5 minutes before it was shot down. They say the contact was received and responded to so they would have identified the nationality of the plane