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Rugby Championship: South Africa - Argentina (18/08/2012)

Argentina's defence was solid, but looked too indisciplined and uncreative to really challenge, which is a shame as I know they've got it in them. Imhoff needs to come in next week, I'd say, as they can do with all the help they can get to try and make them attack. I thought Camacho had a very impressive game, Bosch had some nice touches and Lobbe was good as ever, but besides that it was average performances all round. Hopefully they've develop as they play more and more together ahead of a dramatic victory against the All Blacks in Buenos Aires in a few weeks time.

Well, you can always dream.
 
DuncTheDoodle said:
Argentina's defence was solid, but looked too indisciplined and uncreative to really challenge, which is a shame as I know they've got it in them. Imhoff needs to come in next week, I'd say, as they can do with all the help they can get to try and make them attack. I thought Camacho had a very impressive game, Bosch had some nice touches and Lobbe was good as ever, but besides that it was average performances all round. Hopefully they've develop as they play more and more together ahead of a dramatic victory against the All Blacks in Buenos Aires in a few weeks time.

Well, you can always dream.
Click to expand...

TBH, I think they probably have a better chance of beating Australia than the AB's
 
smartcooky said:
Perhaps so, but South Africa only made TWO line breaks themselves


[TABLE="width: 465, align: center"]
<tbody>[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblTextBlk, colspan: 3"]South Africa.......................................Argentina

KICK PASS RUN[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowGry"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]39[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Kicks from hand[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]37[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]103[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Passes[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]111[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowGry"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]96[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Runs[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]78[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]323[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Metres run with ball[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]236[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="colspan: 3"]
spacer.gif
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblTextBlk, colspan: 3"]ATTACK[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowGry"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]58%[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Possession[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]42%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]63%[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Territory[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]37%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowGry"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]2
[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Clean breaks[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]9[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Defenders beaten[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowGry"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]4[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Offloads[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"] 77 from 85 (90.6%)[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Rucks won[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"] 64 from 65 (98.5%)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowGry"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"] 11 from 12 (91.7%)[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Mauls won[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"] 8 from 9 (88.9%)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]11[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Turnovers conceded[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="colspan: 3"]
spacer.gif
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblTextBlk, colspan: 3"]DEFENSE[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowGry"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]87/8[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Tackles made/missed[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]100/9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: liveTblRowWht"]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]91.6%[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblTextGrn"]Tackling success rate[/TD]
[TD="class: liveTblColCtr"]91.7%[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]



These stats don't tell me a story of one side totally dominating the other.
Click to expand...

I don't know where you got those stats from but from these stats.

http://media.foxsports.com.au/match...nship/detailed-stats.html?matchid=RTN20120102

South Africa made 5 line breaks to Argentina's 0 line breaks.
South Africa missed 13 tackles to Argentina's 28 missed tackles.

That would suggest two areas where one side was better than the other.

Also Argentina dropped the ball in key areas. Amorosino and Camacho both dropped the ball and the next play led to tries.

Any team watching this match will have noticed that Agulla has a problem with the high ball by the way. He can expect some more of that coming his way.
 
icsulescool said:
Yes, Argentina didn't impressed, but played better than I expected.
And the score difference wasn't soo big.
Click to expand...

yeah but the "underdog" days are over. They've beaten all the Six Nations teams on the road (Paris, Twickenham etc...) they've shown they can dominate games (like that horrible defeat they inflicted on us in 2010 and that third place match in the 2007 RWC). They've been world class since the late 90's. They came close to beating the SHemisphere teams more than once, including the AB's.
I thought they'd get at least that one try to establish themselves and shock...

I'm sure this game was a good wake-up call for them. As in "now we HAVE to up the intensity" against these 3 juggernauts...
 
yoe91 said:
yeah but the "underdog" days are over. They've beaten all the Six Nations teams on the road (Paris, Twickenham etc...) they've shown they can dominate games (like that horrible defeat they inflicted on us in 2010 and that third place match in the 2007 RWC). They've been world class since the late 90's. They came close to beating the SHemisphere teams more than once, including the AB's.
I thought they'd get at least that one try to establish themselves and shock...

I'm sure this game was a good wake-up call for them. As in "now we HAVE to up the intensity" against these 3 juggernauts...
Click to expand...

Being a bit pedantic but I'm fairly certain they never won in Ireland. Of course they've beaten us but not at home I think.
 
Well, at least the Springboks didn't run riot as I expected and the Pumas were able to deny them the try bonus point. Not that bad for a first match.

BTW, most people agreed that Phelan chose a more defensive approach for the match and that Imhoff would be selected when the Pumas played at home. That would be next week. So, should we expect him to start or to be on the bench? And if he starts, who do you think Phelan will drop? I can't see him dropping Camacho after the good match he had or Agulla (even if he underperformed). Do you think he could choose a back three consisting of 11. Imhoff / 15. Agulla / 14. Camacho, and thus move Agulla to fullback? That's the only way I can see Imhoff starting, since I don't think he'll try Agulla at 13 or drop any other than González Amorosino. Otherwise, he might be on the bench. [Note that I'm talking about what Phelan might do, not what I would do.]

big ginger 8 said:
Being a bit pedantic but I'm fairly certain they never won in Ireland. Of course they've beaten us but not at home I think.
Click to expand...
That's right, as far as I know. I recall hearing that Ireland was the only 6N team the Pumas hadn't beaten on their home ground when they last visited there two years ago. They lost that match, so...
 
Oh right, I must have missed it because it has the effect of making the statement entirely irrelevant to the current discussion.
 
TRF_Feicarsinn said:
Oh right, I must have missed it because it has the effect of making the statement entirely irrelevant to the current discussion.
Click to expand...

Hah, you made a mistake. Human...

We have a pretty poor record in Argentina (granted, we played down there during our meltdown years, pre-2005 and 2006/07.)
At Millennium we have a pretty decent record now, we managed to beat them there in the 2007 WC warmups, after some match which I forget happened.
 
psychic duck said:
I don't know where you got those stats from but from these stats.

http://media.foxsports.com.au/match...nship/detailed-stats.html?matchid=RTN20120102
Click to expand...

ESPNScrum.com; its a specialist stats and records site

I don't use Fox sports for anything. They can't even report the news accurately, let alone give you accurate stats on any sport.

I certainly do not recall five clean line breaks by the Boks.

Edit:

Have a look at this page on your Fox Sports

http://media.foxsports.com.au/match...ionship/play-by-play.html?matchid=RTN20120102

Even their own video time line shows only two line breaks, both in the second half!

They can't even agree with themselves!!!
 
Last edited:
I was talking about the last time the Pumas played in Ireland, since we were talking about the Pumas winning against every 6N team in their home ground, which certainly didn't happen as far as I know since they lost the last time they played in Ireland (2010) and had never won there before that. I don't know what's the confusion about.
 
drif73r said:
I was talking about the last time the Pumas played in Ireland, since we were talking about the Pumas winning against every 6N team in their home ground, which certainly didn't happen as far as I know since they lost the last time they played in Ireland (2010) and had never won there before that. I don't know what's the confusion about.
Click to expand...


Argentina has beaten every 6N team at home

 
smartcooky said:
Argentina has beaten every 6N team at home
Click to expand...
I know, sorry for the trouble of making you quote all those results. When I said their home grounds I was talking about the 6N's ones (Twickenham, Murrayfield, etc.). Must be because English is not my first language so I couldn't explain it better. My first intention was to say that Big Ginger 8 was right and Argentina has never won in Ireland. They certainly defeated them at home and in neutral venues (World Cups), but still never on Irish soil.
 
was an interesting game to watch though I kinda skimmed through it, the way it started I thought the Bokks could really dominate but it did not end up that way. Puma's looked good at times and for some parts of the match they looked like they had the momentum. they did seem to give away some silly penalties though, they will really need to learn how to adapt to the ref.

Bokks looked pretty good overall, quite hungry.
 
Gutted about Bismarck getting blindsided. I had hoped that with Smit out of the way now he could really come to the fore. We don't have a substitute for Bismarck.

Other than that I am happy with the result. It would have been nice to secure a bonus point win but scoring 3 tries and keeping Argentina out of our in zone is good enough for me for a first game. I rate Argentina even if I thought they should have looked to play more creatively against us. Sure bring that pressure game against Aus because they might crack under it and you not going to out-'flair' them but at the same time your not going to out-'choke' us and a little flare might have been the better route to take against us. I'm not too sure how I feel about M Steyn and Kirschner having decent games... if HM can get the best out of them fair enough but 1 good game isn't enough for me. We'll see how it goes against the likes of NZ and Aus. The only major concerns for me remain

- Pienaar is the premier 9 ATM
- Our centers aren't creating any form of space for each other or the outbacks
- We still need work at our own breakdown even if we aren't competing the oppositions. Losing Bismarck (and Oosthuizen against England) didn't help but he can't be expected to do all the work. Still no space for Brussow at the expense of Daniel?
 
Last edited:
stormer2010 said:
Gutted about Bismarck getting blindsided. I had hoped that with Smit out of the way now he could really come to the fore. We don't have a substitute for Bismarck.

Other than that I am happy with the result. I'd would have been nice to secure a bonus point win but scoring 3 tries and keeping Argentina out of our in zone is good enough for me for a first game. I'm not too sure how I feel about M Steyn and Kirschner having decent games... if HM can get the best out of them fair enough but 1 good game isn't enough for me. We'll see how it goes against the likes of NZ and Aus. The only major concerns for me remain

- Pienaar is the premier 9 ATM
- Our centers aren't creating any form of space for each other or the outbacks
- We still need work at our own breakdown even if we aren't competing the oppositions. Losing Bismarck (and Oosthuizen against England) didn't help but he can't be expected to do all the work. Still no space for Brussow at the expense of Daniel?
Click to expand...

Yeah Bismarck's injury is another major loss to our cause... What is it with our guys and injuring their f***ng knees??!!

I think Frans Steyn still has some Honeymoon Rust, he'll get better, don't worry.

Like I said before, Keegan Daniel didn't impress at all, and I agree with your sentiment regarding Brussouw. Our pack needs a fetcher now, especially with Bismarck out.

Let's give credit where credit is due. Morne Steyn had a great game, and deserved the MOTM award. Zane Kirchner was also solid at the back. Those 2 got the most criticism, even here on TRF, and they did well.

Our team struggled to gel a bit and was a bit rattled by Bismarck... hopefully with the next game there will be a bit more fluency...
 

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