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Rugby Championship: Australia - New Zealand (18/08/2012)

Yes both correct.

My point simply was; they've spent more time on guys that don't necessarily have the same desire to be here and may have been given 2nd/3rd chances (Weepu, Cowan, McAlister at some point, SBW, Guildford etc etc) - and it was sad that he wasn't given the same opportunity as I thought he had the potential.

But no biggie now obviously.

although i completely agree those guys have been given TOO MANY chances i dont think we can say they Ross had a great desire to play for the AB's because he didn't do what he was told he needed to do do make the AB's...pretty simple

as for Tom, he struggled to get into the highlanders and then struggled to get into the crusaders so not a big surpise to has fallen out of favour with the AB's, don't really think he was left out in a the cold...there were just better options
 
although i completely agree those guys have been given TOO MANY chances i dont think we can say they Ross had a great desire to play for the AB's because he didn't do what he was told he needed to do do make the AB's...pretty simple

as for Tom, he struggled to get into the highlanders and then struggled to get into the crusaders so not a big surpise to has fallen out of favour with the AB's, don't really think he was left out in a the cold...there were just better options

A bit hard on Ross I feel, he was chucked in to the AB side and given the job of calling the lineouts in his first ever test, when that turned to custard he was held responsible and marked never to play in Black again, you can thank Hanson for that.

Anyway, on the test this weekend, I feel the ABs just have too much class for the Wobbly team selected and should win by about 20ish.
 
Aussies have chosen a physical forward pack. This game will be won up front so don't focus too much on the patched up backline!
 
[TABLE="class: grid"]
[TR][TD] Australia [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] New Zealand [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Kurtley Beale [/TD][TD] 15 [/TD][TD] Israel Dagg [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Adam Ashley-Cooper [/TD][TD] 14 [/TD][TD] Cory Jane [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Rob Horne [/TD][TD] 13 [/TD][TD] Ma'a Nonu [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Anthony Fainga'a [/TD][TD] 12 [/TD][TD] Sonny Bill Williams [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Digby Ioane [/TD][TD] 11 [/TD][TD] Hosea Gear [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Berrick Barnes [/TD][TD] 10 [/TD][TD] Daniel Carter [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Wille Genia [/TD][TD] 9 [/TD][TD] Aaron Smith [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Scott Higginbotham [/TD][TD] 8 [/TD][TD] Kieran Read [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] David Pocock © [/TD][TD] 7 [/TD][TD] Richie McCaw © [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Dave Dennis [/TD][TD] 6 [/TD][TD] Liam Messam [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Nathan Sharpe [/TD][TD] 5 [/TD][TD] Samuel Whitelock [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Sitaleki Timani [/TD][TD] 4 [/TD][TD] Luke Romano [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Sekope Kepu [/TD][TD] 3 [/TD][TD] Owen Franks [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Tatafu Polota-Nau [/TD][TD] 2 [/TD][TD] Keven Mealamu [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Benn Robinson [/TD][TD] 1 [/TD][TD] Tony Woodcock [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Stephen Moore [/TD][TD] 16 [/TD][TD] Andrew Hore [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] James Slipper [/TD][TD] 17 [/TD][TD] Ben Franks [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Rob Simmons [/TD][TD] 18 [/TD][TD] Brodie Retallick [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Radike Samo [/TD][TD] 19 [/TD][TD] Victor Vito [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Michael Hooper [/TD][TD] 20 [/TD][TD] Piri Weepu [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Nick Phipps [/TD][TD] 21 [/TD][TD] Aaron Cruden [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Drew Mitchell [/TD][TD] 22 [/TD][TD] Ben Smith [/TD][/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Surprised to see Vito included over Cane. Cane was for me the only reason that New Zealand managed to come out of the second test in the Ireland series with a win. With both him and McCaw at the breakdown it would have been a real challenge for Pocock and co. Nice to see Ben Smith on the bench, LOL at Weepu.
 
Still the Weepu "LOL'S"? Come on guys grow up... Or say nothing at all coz you'll look kinda stupid if the man has a great game, and he's definitely capable of it...

On the 22, I think they should've played Savea over Gear, he can sometimes become suspect on defence/defensive positioning. Where as Savea seems to have that covered, but who knows. I know it was a tight pick and Gear has the experienced head so it wasn't a bad decision. Great to see Romano get the start, I thought he should've had the starts in the June tests as well, but hey, no better time to shine then against the Aussies :p
 
Still the Weepu "LOL'S"? Come on guys grow up... Or say nothing at all coz you'll look kinda stupid if the man has a great game, and he's definitely capable of it...

Yes, he is, but recent form has shown nothing to indicate he is going to.
I rated Weepu very highly until this season, and look forward to seeing him return to the form we all know he is capable of. Until then, he will certainly be questioned when included in the 22; whether correctly or incorrectly, I do not know.
 
Still the Weepu "LOL'S"? Come on guys grow up... Or say nothing at all coz you'll look kinda stupid if the man has a great game, and he's definitely capable of it...

Capable, but unlikely. He's a talent no doubt, but he isn't the second best 9 in New Zealand and hasn't shown much form in an All Blacks shirt since early on in the WC. With 20 minutes left he isn't the player I'd like to bring on.
 
Yes! We get our wish and Messam gets the start. Now let's go Liam and smash em and cement that 6 spot for yourself.

Still the Weepu "LOL'S"? Come on guys grow up... Or say nothing at all coz you'll look kinda stupid if the man has a great game, and he's definitely capable of it...

On the 22, I think they should've played Savea over Gear, he can sometimes become suspect on defence/defensive positioning. Where as Savea seems to have that covered, but who knows. I know it was a tight pick and Gear has the experienced head so it wasn't a bad decision. Great to see Romano get the start, I thought he should've had the starts in the June tests as well, but hey, no better time to shine then against the Aussies :p
Yeah I thought for certain that Savea would get the nod.

I guess seeing as they went with Vito over Cane, and Gear over Savea; that the ABs are thinking of going the safe route with experience (for the most part) where they think the Aussies will target them.
 
Surprised to see Vito included over Cane. Cane was for me the only reason that New Zealand managed to come out of the second test in the Ireland series with a win. With both him and McCaw at the breakdown it would have been a real challenge for Pocock and co. Nice to see Ben Smith on the bench, LOL at Weepu.

Yes, interesting that Vito was included over Sam Cane ... I'm guessing it's because the number 6 jersey is by no means secured by any one player, and they want to give Vito some game time there (Messam certainly deserves the starting spot on current form), also, they may be still worried over Keiran Read's recent injuries, and they see Vito as a better option to cover Number 8, than either Messam or Ritchie.

I like the way Cane plays, and I'm sure he'll get his chance (along with Savea) later in the season.

I'm pleased to see Romano get his start (providing he is fully over his injury), although I do rate Retallick very highly as well.

The AB's should win this, but I doubt it will be as convincing as some might think ... The Wallabies are well rested, and have had a lot of time to plan for this match ... they are also playing at home, which always helps
 
Yes, he is, but recent form has shown nothing to indicate he is going to.
I rated Weepu very highly until this season, and look forward to seeing him return to the form we all know he is capable of. Until then, he will certainly be questioned when included in the 22; whether correctly or incorrectly, I do not know.


Based on what? Weepu didn't have bad games in the Blues end of season. I don't think Weepu is the 2nd in NZ either, and I don't think Smith is no.1. Two other halfbacks IMO should have been included. But I'm not upset about Weepu's inclusion. He is a proven player and I have no doubt he will play great rugby.. It's just a shame that people take digs at him because of his weight early on in the season and now it seems to be a permanent dig at him with no reason other than he turned up fat early on and now most people seem to just associate bad form with Weepu, even when he hasn't been as bad as most of you let on.

Rant over.
 
Yes, interesting that Vito was included over Sam Cane ... I'm guessing it's because the number 6 jersey is by no means secured by any one player, and they want to give Vito some game time there (Messam certainly deserves the starting spot on current form), also, they may be still worried over Keiran Read's recent injuries, and they see Vito as a better option to cover Number 8, than either Messam or Ritchie.

I like the way Cane plays, and I'm sure he'll get his chance (along with Savea) later in the season.

I'm pleased to see Romano get his start (providing he is fully over his injury), although I do rate Retallick very highly as well.

The AB's should win this, but I doubt it will be as convincing as some might think ... The Wallabies are well rested, and have had a lot of time to plan for this match ... they are also playing at home, which always helps

Exactly what I as going to say, but you beat me too it!

Overall a largely predictable 22. Mealamu has been given the nod over Hore at hooker, and it will be interesting to see whether he starts throughout the RC, or whether they rotate their hookers a bit. Romano over Retallick is a slight surprise, but a good move in my opinion. Though I think Retallick is probably still a better lock than Romano, Romano is a specialist TH lock, whereas Retallick is a really more of a LH lock (though could develop into the TH lock role). Romano doesn't have the same work-rate as Retallick, but he will certainly add a lot to the AB's scrum, and offers another very powerful ball running option (which the AB's used very well in the 3rd Ireland test). I'd expect Retallick will still get a number of starts throughout the tournament, and I'd even be keen to see him paired with Romano in one of the Argentina matches. Messam gets his big chance to nail down the AB's 6 jersey - while I would have (just) preferred Vito, it is hard to argue that Messam doesn't warrant a start on form! All he needs to do is bring his Super Rugby form into the test arena - he showed he could do that in the third Ireland test, but this will be another step up again.

No surprises at all in the backline. Gear likely got the nod over Savea due to his experience, and now has a good chance to to nail down the AB's left wing spot. The key for him is to not only continue with the strong work-rate he has displayed all season, but also to be very aggressive, as when he is fired up he is very hard to stop!

Surprised to see Vito included over Cane. Cane was for me the only reason that New Zealand managed to come out of the second test in the Ireland series with a win. With both him and McCaw at the breakdown it would have been a real challenge for Pocock and co. Nice to see Ben Smith on the bench, LOL at Weepu.

Oh yeah, you love him too. +ve rep to that man.
 
We all love Ben Smith, it is impossible not to.

Dizzy, I am not having a go at Weepu. As I have said, I am a fan of his. His performances near the end of the season were better than earlier on, I just am skeptical over whether they are good enough to merit All Black selection. I have never had a go at his weight (I did post a picture implying he snacks on children, but that was directed at the Turks, with Weepu an unfortunate accomplice in my 'humour'). I would like to see Weepu get back to the 2010-11 form (after you play Wales, of course).
 
Exactly what I as going to say, but you beat me too it!

Overall a largely predictable 22. Mealamu has been given the nod over Hore at hooker, and it will be interesting to see whether he starts throughout the RC, or whether they rotate their hookers a bit. Romano over Retallick is a slight surprise, but a good move in my opinion. Though I think Retallick is probably still a better lock than Romano, Romano is a specialist TH lock, whereas Retallick is a really more of a LH lock (though could develop into the TH lock role). Romano doesn't have the same work-rate as Retallick, but he will certainly add a lot to the AB's scrum, and offers another very powerful ball running option (which the AB's used very well in the 3rd Ireland test). I'd expect Retallick will still get a number of starts throughout the tournament, and I'd even be keen to see him paired with Romano in one of the Argentina matches. Messam gets his big chance to nail down the AB's 6 jersey - while I would have (just) preferred Vito, it is hard to argue that Messam doesn't warrant a start on form! All he needs to do is bring his Super Rugby form into the test arena - he showed he could do that in the third Ireland test, but this will be another step up again.

No surprises at all in the backline. Gear likely got the nod over Savea due to his experience, and now has a good chance to to nail down the AB's left wing spot. The key for him is to not only continue with the strong work-rate he has displayed all season, but also to be very aggressive, as when he is fired up he is very hard to stop!



Oh yeah, you love him too. +ve rep to that man.

Well, you can't be first at everything, can you Darwin :p ... I'm just glad I managed to beat you at something, even it was posting something first! :)

While I'm happy with the squad named, I'm also encouraged that the AB selectors do seem to be taking form players into the wider training squads, which may point to a few more new All Blacks as this competition progresses, or even in the squad for the end of year tour.

I'm particularly happy to see Craig Clarke in the most recent training squad as he epitomises current good form, and also rewarding hard work ... he is definitely one of the form tight head locks at the moment.

I suspect I wouldn't be the only one, but there's no way at the start of the season, that I would have included his name as a possible All Black.

If things go well for the All Blacks, I wouldn't mind seeing the Otago fella ... what's his name ... damn I can't remember, but his initials are BS ;) ... coming on as a replacement in the midfield, but, i suspect he'll get a run on the wing or perhaps fullback, if he gets a run at all
 
Based on what? Weepu didn't have bad games in the Blues end of season. I don't think Weepu is the 2nd in NZ either, and I don't think Smith is no.1. Two other halfbacks IMO should have been included. But I'm not upset about Weepu's inclusion. He is a proven player and I have no doubt he will play great rugby.. It's just a shame that people take digs at him because of his weight early on in the season and now it seems to be a permanent dig at him with no reason other than he turned up fat early on and now most people seem to just associate bad form with Weepu, even when he hasn't been as bad as most of you let on.

Rant over.

Honestly? you think Peremara and kerr barlow are both better?

I would have liked to see ellison in there somewhere, i dont really get why move a guy out of position (nonu) when you could have had SBW (whole different argument whether he should be there to start with) and Ellison both in great form and playing in position.....
 
"Honestly? you think Peremara and kerr barlow are both better?"

It is not a question of better at this level... It is a question of momentary performance level, of form at a given time. They all are super players; what the coach has to decide is not overall greatness but specific date shape.
 
Guys that has always been the problem with the AB, too many good players. The sad thing is that you can only have 22 per match day. So it is obvious that some players will miss out, it is something i accepted a long time ago.
 
"Honestly? you think Peremara and kerr barlow are both better?"

It is not a question of better at this level... It is a question of momentary performance level, of form at a given time. They all are super players; what the coach has to decide is not overall greatness but specific date shape.

I think it's more about the kind of game they want to play... Kerr-Barlow and Perenara are both similar, they run a lot with the ball and attack the fringes, whereas Weepu and Smith are better known for their distribution, Carter is also a great distributor of the ball. The AB's Coach/Selectors clearly want to get quick ball out to the backs... And can you blame them when they have players like SBW, Nonu, Gear, Jane and Dagg out there?

Carter is amazing at setting players up when he has very little time or space, but when he quick ball and service he can make even better plays. So i think that this is why these guys have been picked...

Personally i'd probably take Ellis and Smith, although i'd probably make room in the squad for an extra Hooker (Hika Elliot) and Halfback (Kerr-Barlow) but I'm not a selector so that doesn't really matter :p
 
Personally i'd probably take Ellis and Smith, although i'd probably make room in the squad for an extra Hooker (Hika Elliot) and Halfback (Kerr-Barlow) but I'm not a selector so that doesn't really matter :p

thank god...
 

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