Rugby 2012 Team Ratings?

[lucky number 7]

the only king in this forum is king darcy ....learn your place commoner..

 

[lucky number 7]

but for a wee peasant umanga was rather good...

 

[Iron Mike]

I don't rate New Zealand as better than us, but i don't rate us as better than New Zealand. It's up and down really. Why not have them both with the same score? Or do a FIFA and rate all of the Top tier teams with 5 stars, then just fluctuate between attack, defense and 'flair' or 'team chemistry'? Otherwise just use the World Rankings system. New Zealand are ranked number one. It would only be fair if they are the highest ranked team. If it were up to me though, i would give them an equal rating. Funny how most of the guys have teams like England and France with the same score, or Ireland and France. But nobody wants to give New Zealand and South Africa the same rating. LOL!

Finally someone with some sense. Just either both 5/5 or both on the same. I'd be more than happy with that. Infact I think I'd prefer the star rating to be honest, then people won't feel bias is involved, the only two teams who deserve 5 stars are South Africa and the All Blacks, then teams like the Wallabies on 4 and a half, with France and Ireland on 4 and a half, then others like England on 4, Scotland 4, Argentina 4.

 

[fusion-green]

no australia or south africa

 

[Teh Mite]

My thoughts;

5* Teams

ABs, Boks, France, B&I Lions (fully customisable), Leicester, Northampton, Saracens, Munster, Leinster, Ospreys, Toulouse, Perpignan, Clermont, Bulls, Stormers, Crusaders

4*
England, Ireland, Wales, Australia, Barbarians (fully customisable minus players from team playing against), Wasps, Bath, Gloucester, London Irish, Toulon, Castres, Biarritz, Stade, Cardiff, Ulster, Blues, Tahs, Brumbies, Hurricanes

3*
Scotland, Italy, Argentina, NZ Maori (customisable), PIs (customisable), Sale, Newcastle, Quins, Scarlets, Dragons, Edinburgh, *an Italian franchise, Metro-Racing, Brive, Monpellier, Borgoin, Sharks, Chiefs, Highlanders - other international teams

2*
Leeds, Exeter, Connauct, Glasgow, Montuban, Bayonnais, *other French Club, *Other italian Franchise, Glasgow, Lions, Force, Rebels, -other international teams

1*
Bristol, Worcester, *2 other French teams (for promotion in regular season mode). -other international teams

That's about a fair assessment of the teams I've not forgotten

 

[lucky number 7]

My thoughts;

5* Teams

ABs, Boks, France, B&I Lions (fully customisable), Leicester, Northampton, Saracens, Munster, Leinster, Ospreys, Toulouse, Perpignan, Clermont, Bulls, Stormers, Crusaders

4*
England, Ireland, Wales, Australia, Barbarians (fully customisable minus players from team playing against), Wasps, Bath, Gloucester, London Irish, Toulon, Castres, Biarritz, Stade, Cardiff, Ulster, Blues, Tahs, Brumbies, Hurricanes

3*
Scotland, Italy, Argentina, NZ Maori (customisable), PIs (customisable), Sale, Newcastle, Quins, Scarlets, Dragons, Edinburgh, *an Italian franchise, Metro-Racing, Brive, Monpellier, Borgoin, Sharks, Chiefs, Highlanders - other international teams

2*
Leeds, Exeter, Connauct, Glasgow, Montuban, Bayonnais, *other French Club, *Other italian Franchise, Glasgow, Lions, Force, Rebels, -other international teams

1*
Bristol, Worcester, *2 other French teams (for promotion in regular season mode). -other international teams

That's about a fair assessment of the teams I've not forgotten

Do the stars mean less for for club teams ? as i cant see how leinster > ireland + england ..or even equal to the all blacks.?

 

[Teh Mite]

It doesn't bloody matter, they're meant to be a guide not an Excel Spreadsheet.

Anyway, Leinster (and Munster for that matter) are miles better then Ireland.

 

[Feicarsinn]

It doesn't bloody matter, they're meant to be a guide not an Excel Spreadsheet.

Anyway, Leinster (and Munster for that matter) are miles better then Ireland.

Disagree, but that's for another thread.

The stars idea is probably the best way forward, would put an end to some bickering anyway. Doesn't really bother me anyway, I pay no heed to them.

 

[lucky number 7]

meh i doubt that as the breakdown of irish internationals is fairly even between the two provincial sides...

munster= buckly , flannery ,poc ,doc , wallace , ronan , o leary , o gara ,earls

leinster = healy , kneeslip , jennings ,sexton, bod darcey , kearney

i dont see how either team can be superior to ireand when they only contribute less than half the panel each

and i was not critisising what you said initially just wondering how you were scoring each team

 

[Teh Mite]

They may contribute 50% of the Ireland team each, but the 1uality of the imports make them of higher quality then the national squad.

e.g. CJ surpasses any Irish prop, Warwick is better then any Irish 10, JdV is better then BOD and d'arcy, Howlett is better then any wing or fullback (on par with Bowe).

Test rugby isn't the be all and end all. Then also remember the chemistry between clubmates will always surpass those of occasional test squads.

 

[Haysie]

Do the stars mean less for for club teams ? as i cant see how leinster > ireland + england ..or even equal to the all blacks.?

Yeah they do - The stars are in a ratio to whoever else is in their competition. Picture Z-scores and standard deviation.
i.e. a 4 in international is miles better than a 4 in club.

 

[lucky number 7]

jdv better than bod and darcy? jdv is an excellent player but he never hit top form up here and only started playing well very late into the season...warwick is good player indeed but does not surpass sexton in any way bar dropgoals and howlet was good 2 years ago but lately has not set the world alight ..

and to do with the chemistry that is a good point ...look at what a half strength munster team did to a half strenght all blacks a few years ago...

 

[ranger]

Yeah they do - The stars are in a ratio to whoever else is in their competition. Picture Z-scores and standard deviation.
i.e. a 4 in international is miles better than a 4 in club.

Its not that simple though.. some of these club teams would take out international ones in my opinion.

From a NZ perspective:

1)B.Franks-All Black
2)C.Flynn-All Black
3)O.Franks-All Black
4)S.Whitelock-All Black
5)B.Thorn-All Black
6)R.McCaw-All Black Captain
7)G.Whitelock- Former All Black
8)K.Read- All Black
9)A.Ellis- Former All Black
10)D. Carter- All Black
11)Z.Guildford-All Black
12)T.Bateman-Jr All Black
13)R.Fruean-Jr All Black
14)S.Maitland-NZ Maori
15)C.Slade-Former All Blacks squad memeber

Add to that former AB Isaac Ross and newly signed Sonny-Bill Williams and that is a fairly impressive team. If you were rating teams based on the players that comprise them, then surely this team would be rated higher than alot of international outfits?

 

[Iron Mike]

I wouldn't put Stormers on 5, maybe 4, 4 and a half, they have a few Bokke players, they played one good season (2010) and apart from that haven't been a very strong force in the Super 14. The only two Super 14 teams who deserve a 5 are the Crusaders for winning 7 ***les and being the base of the All Blacks, then the Bulls who are also the base of the Boks.

Don't forget Ti'i Paulo, who would've been an All Black if he didn't move overseas and Chris Jack.

De Malmanche is utter ****! He can't play, I don't know why he is an All Black. Can't even throw one straight ball into the line out.

 

[Seaton]

I would just like to point out that SavageLez's opinions do in no way reflect those of the entire Scottish nation
Indeed, some views are opposite, ie Scots think that England are ranked and rated higher than they should be

SavageLez, please stop spouting *****, you are giving Scots abroad a bad name

 

[King_D'Arcy]

I'm pretty sure SavageLez isn't actually Scottish LordHope. It's some sort of a mascarade so he won't come across as biased. It has failed miserably on most accounts of course.

 

[SelimNiai]

I'm pretty sure SavageLez isn't actually Scottish LordHope. It's some sort of a mascarade so he won't come across as biased. It has failed miserably on most accounts of course.

I think he proclaimed his sweatiness about the same time when another one of his arguments was shot down.

 

[SavageLez]

I'm always majorly surprised at the apparent lack of respect for the boks. They've a winning record (and that at a pretty decent margin) against all countries they've played against except for the All Blacks, and this they only lost in a time following their ten odd year exclusion from Test Rugby! I'd hazard to say they would never have lost the upper hand had it not been for this crappy apartheid ban! but granted those are ifs and buts, not worth a discussion just a theory. But remember in the era where the Blacks dominated there has been a lot more games played, so if you have a good team for five years in the modern era it's like having had a good team for about thirty years in the amateur era... so actually even though a team like the boks are behind the blacks on games won, their domination period has been much longer! But I agree with those who say we should go on the last four to five years form, in which case (and maybe this bodes well for the true return of the springbok) SA Rugby as a whole has been dominant. I wouldn't rate them much higher than the blacks but team three must definitely be much, much lower if we're honest! All in all we have to admit: Rugby IS Green and Black!

I can't agree with you more! I also feel that France are overated by most in the star rankings posted. France got badly routed by South Africa and Argentina in the last 3 weeks!

 

[Iron Mike]

I can't agree with you more! I also feel that France are overated by most in the star rankings posted. France got badly routed by South Africa and Argentina in the last 3 weeks!

But South Africa also got ''badly routed'' by France and Ireland, Ireland three times in a row, what do you put that down to? Having a bad hair day?

Yes, he is obviously a South African saying he is a Scotsman so he doesn't appear to be biased. I bet he chose Scotland as they are the most neutral country, no one can hate them as they don't upset anyone, have started 0 wars and have little to no racism.

 

[Haysie]

Its not that simple though.. some of these club teams would take out international ones in my opinion.

Could you not then have two bell curves, one for club teams with the average teams (eg. Gloucester, Brumbies, ) holding the 64% middle then the exceptional teams and the ordinary teams on the outside with like +1 or -1, then one for international teams doing the same thing filling the upper and lower echelons?