Post-RWC All Blacks Team?

[Dizzy]

Man this really sucks.. Not seeing Nonu in that 12 jersey is going to be eerie. Not seeing Conrad also. McCaw I truly feel is going to be in the squad next year. He has never said he is retiring, that has all been media and based on his post match interview where he said "I still dont want it to end to be honest, at the moment im still apart of this team, how could you get enough of this? So we'll worry about that after this, if you get moments like this, why would you ever call it a day?" the interviewer responded "That's a maybe then?" and he just smiled gesturing in acknowledgement. I think it would be wise to keep him on for one more year to blood the next generation of All Blacks legends through and lead by example, set the standard before he finally sets his sails.

My team for the future is:
1) Joe Moody
2) Dane Coles
3) Owen Franks
4) Sam Whitelock
5) Brodie Rettallick
6) Victor Vito
7) Richie McCaw/Sam Cane
8) Kieran Read (c)

9) Aaron Smith
10) Beauden Barrett
11) Julian Savea
12) Ryan Crotty
13) Malakai Fekitoa
14) Nehe Milner-Skudder
15) Ben Smith

 

[PacDuran]

Man this really sucks.. Not seeing Nonu in that 12 jersey is going to be eerie. Not seeing Conrad also. McCaw I truly feel is going to be in the squad next year. He has never said he is retiring, that has all been media and based on his post match interview where he said "I still dont want it to end to be honest, at the moment im still apart of this team, how could you get enough of this? So we'll worry about that after this, if you get moments like this, why would you ever call it a day?" the interviewer responded "That's a maybe then?" and he just smiled gesturing in acknowledgement. I think it would be wise to keep him on for one more year to blood the next generation of All Blacks legends through and lead by example, set the standard before he finally sets his sails.

My team for the future is:
1) Joe Moody
2) Dane Coles
3) Owen Franks
4) Sam Whitelock
5) Brodie Rettallick
6) Victor Vito
7) Richie McCaw/Sam Cane
8) Kieran Read (c)

9) Aaron Smith
10) Beauden Barrett
11) Julian Savea
12) Ryan Crotty
13) Malakai Fekitoa
14) Nehe Milner-Skudder
15) Ben Smith

That's the team boss. Maybe find a better 1 than Moody and you have it.

Barrett needs a shot at the 10 shirt. I would like to see him stake his claim. i think he can be absolutely awesome there. What a player.

 

[ABs2011]

That's the team boss. Maybe find a better 1 than Moody and you have it.

Barrett needs a shot at the 10 shirt. I would like to see him stake his claim. i think he can be absolutely awesome there. What a player.

Barrett, Cruden, and Sopoaga will all get a shot at the 10 in '16, BUT for now I'd say Cruden tops the list. Barrett is just too darn good off the bench for his own good. The lack of versatility that Sopoaga and Cruden offer I think advantages them when it comes to the starting spot. For me the incumbent is still Cruden now that DC has gone.

What happened to dropping Read though? You gave up on that pretty quick and now have him starting and as Captain!

 

[Larksea]

we are all set for 2016

1, Moody, Edmounds, Goodes
2, Coles, Taylor, Elliot, Marshall
3, Franks, faumuina, Josh Hohneck
4, Retalick, Broadhurst
5, whitelock, Bird
6, Kaino, Shields, Luatua
7, Todd, Cane, Savea (heck McCaw Hasn't retired yet, from the vibes he put out today we should probably expect him back)
8, Read, akira ioane, Vito, Luke Whitelock
9, Smith, Weber, TKB, Perenara
10, Barrett, Sapoaga, damian mckenzie, Cruden, Black, Sephen Donald (back with the chiefs hehe)
11, Savea, Lowe, glen fisiiahi (lol)
12, Moala, Crotty
13, Fekitoa, Ngatai, ranger
14, Skudder, Naholo
15, Ben ****ing smith, Dagg

super15 is bound to unearth some serious talent.

SBW and Messam are committing to 7's next year.

If McCaw does retire his leadership will be the hardest thing to replace. While McCaw has still been playing bloody well Sam Cane and Matt Todd have probably been playing better the last couple of years anyway. Ardie Savea has been making a massive impact but is still a little green. Akira Ioane is looking like a dead set future superstar....

 

[GoTheNaki]

Swear there's another thread that was made 2 weeks ago. I posted quite heavily, I'll just quote from it.. Uh.. The thread has been deleted it seems -.-'.

But uh, Akira Ioane is starting to be too good to ignore. All that it would take was an impressive Super Rugby season to make it onto that training squad. The thing is, he is going to have Kaino at his position at the Blues. So I assume he'll start at number 8. But as soon as Kaino moves on, I have Ioane at 6 for the ABs.

People were hyping up Brad Weber, but I don't think they realise that Perenara is younger than him.. Aaron Smith will be 30 at the next World Cup. I guess it really hinges on how his game translates to his body starting to decline in his latter years. As I mentioned in the previous thread, we could be looking at the pool of Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi, Mitchell Drummond, and Sam Nock, possibly another that comes up through up the ranks too, by the time Aaron Smith lets go of the jersey.

People like to say that Damian McKenzie is too small... He's practically identical to Cruden, in weight, and size. He has a lot of things that you cannot simply teach, it's just his mind that the selectors will probably wait on.

Kieran Read is 30, and, well... After this WC, I feel like his best days could well be behind him. I hate to turn into a doubter, but hell, I'd like to see Ardie Savea start looking at being an 8. I feel that, this is the position that he is going to have the best chance at being an All Black in. You've got to imagine with McCaw's uncertainty, and Sam Cane captaining the ABs during the WC, Savea should be looking at the 8 position. The guy can run like a winger, has all the ball skills, I think he'd be awesome.

As for the infamous 10 position... I am going to assume it will be Cruden/Sopoaga/Barrett. I know it seems unfair on Barrett, but he's super-super sub, it can change the ABs up, and give us completely different looks at the opposition.

12/13 - We have a nice pool of players for this position, might be a while before we figure it out, we have 4 years to. But the pool would be: Fekitoa, Crotty, Ngatai, Moala, Tamanivalu(if he starts with Ngatai at the Chiefs), and in a couple of years, maybe Lienert-Brown. Ngatai already has a kicking game, and Fekitoa is already an All Black... I would assume that maybe it will be those two. But I wouldn't be surprised if Hansen sticks with the loyal ones that haven't gone abroad, and go with Crotty/Fekitoa.

 

[ABs2011]

I think people are getting a little ahead of themselves with Savea and Ioane. They are both huge talents for sure, but there are two things to remmeber. The step up from ITM cup to SR and again to Test match Rugby is huge. These two young fullahs are getting there but there is a long way to go yet. The other thing is that you have to be careful not to get too enamoured with their athleticism (ball carrying, line breaks, off loads etc) and check out what more they offer arround the park. If you watch them closely, they still have a long way to go in that respect. I;m not saying they wont get there, but I think throwing them straight into the starting line up post world cup is a little hasty. In fact I'm near positive it wont happen. There are guys ahead of them to pass the mantle to first. That being said, Hansen brought through a ton of great players post 2011 that didnt play then but are stars now, he will for sure follow the same recipe book this time around as well.

 

[Mcfadden]

In my opinion it's best to start them early. We have a whole 4 years to play with. If they're going to make mistakes and whatever they may as well get it out of the way nice and early so we can watch them grow. We also need to see what they bring to the table at that level. Next years Super Rugby will be interesting. How often do we see players have a bumper year only to get figured out by opposing teams thereafter? I think that will be the test for some of these guys.

I primarily picked Ioane because I think he has more size and possibly strength than Savea (not in terms of bumping players off, but holding them up). He's probably the closest thing we'll have to an enforcer for awhile. He's played well at a struggling Super franchise and he was a stand out player at age grade international footy, so that's gotta count for something. What I like about him is he's not just a prolific runner like Savea is. You mention there are other areas around the park to check out. I reckon Akira ticks a fair few of those boxes. I've seen him get a fair few turnovers and for a tall lanky lad has a bit of muscle in contact. Kaino is awesome and he's proved me wrong recently. But he'd be bloody old in rugby terms by the next World Cup. May as well wait and see how they go with SR again to see if consistency is there, but if all things go well then I'd invest in them early.

 

[ABs2011]

Yup, and you may well be right, but its not just about the on field stuff. In terms of starting them too early, I'm talking about the mental side. They have to be ready and mature enough for that. Look what happened to Luatua!!

The other stuff I'm talking about on field is # of rucks made, effectiveness at rucks, % succesful tackles, effectiveness of tackles. The tough grindy stuff that you dont normally know about a player until you really watch them closely. I'm not saying these guys arent good at these aspects, but I'm not sold on them yet, and in particular getting around the park at ITM cup level is a whole different ball game to international.

I guess all I am saying is dont be suprised if they ease these guys in.

First things first though, Ionae needs to get a full season of SR under his belt for us to see how he really rates, and Ardie needs to back up last season and improve.

They could be great but I wouldnt be suprised if the transition is a slow and steady one. We still have a bunch of seasoned guys so no need to look past them to the new crop straight away.

 

[GoTheNaki]

I think people are getting a little ahead of themselves with Savea and Ioane. They are both huge talents for sure, but there are two things to remmeber. The step up from ITM cup to SR and again to Test match Rugby is huge. These two young fullahs are getting there but there is a long way to go yet. The other thing is that you have to be careful not to get too enamoured with their athleticism (ball carrying, line breaks, off loads etc) and check out what more they offer arround the park. If you watch them closely, they still have a long way to go in that respect. I;m not saying they wont get there, but I think throwing them straight into the starting line up post world cup is a little hasty. In fact I'm near positive it wont happen. There are guys ahead of them to pass the mantle to first. That being said, Hansen brought through a ton of great players post 2011 that didnt play then but are stars now, he will for sure follow the same recipe book this time around as well.

I never said chuck them straight in there. I suggested that they will be the next big things. Read will be 34 in 2019, and Kaino will be 36. It's obvious that they will probably step up into those roles. There are 4 years to give them enough experience, because, let's be fair... I don't think either of Read/Kaino will be there. I know we're going to lose a lot of experience in both areas of the park, but realistically, all that matters are World Cups. South Africa are going to be building for 2019 with their young core, and I think that's how we should approach it, even if we are the #1 and world champions.

As I said, Ioane would have to have a breakout season in Super Rugby, like he did in ITM. Yes they are different levels, but as a number 8, you shouldn't really lead the field in number of players beaten. He's not a back, that's a huge stat. You can also tell when the top percentage of talent in NZ play ITM, they make it look easy. He did, he displayed things you see from current All Blacks coming back down to ITM, making other teams, and players, look average. Savea has already been playing Super Rugby for 3 seasons, is it now? And he's already been to a final, he is 22. He played well for Wellington, so I guess he'll have an improvement in Super.

 

[nickdnz]

So here are my thoughts:

Next year we will be bringing in a lot of new ABs. You look at 2012 and we brought in Sam Cane, Aaron Smith, Beauden Barrett, Brodie Retallick, Dane Coles and Julian Savea as completely uncapped players, while guys like Aaron Cruden and Ben Smith became regulars. So with that in mind:

Front Row: Wyatt Crockett, Owen Franks, Joe Moody and Charlie Faumuina are probably all likely to get a spot. Since we are losing Ben Franks and Tony Woodcock - I guess Hansen will probably bring Laulala back (who should have been in this squad IMHO) - and potentially another prop. See who stands out in Super Rugby (if it was a loose head Reggie Goodes has looked good for a while).

Second Row: I just hope Romano isn't retained. Seeing as he favored Patrick Tuipolutu (which he has talked big things of) - I would be surprised if we don't see a Retallick/Whitelock/Tuipolotu combo for a while (just to interest people, providing Owen Franks and Sam Whitelock stick around for four year, they could be the first players to win three RWCs..).

Looseforwards: With McCaw likely going and Messam not there - I pick room for Akira Ioane as a bolter. Considering how young Hansen brought guys in for 2012 - I think a big season from him would secure it (and he has looked like a prodigy tbh). We could also see Savea getting a spot - especially if he has a good season.

Halfbacks: No changes, maybe Webber gets a shot, but I don't know who they'd drop.

Fly half: No Daniel Carter or Colin Slade -but Cruden returns. So it probably will be Cruden, Barrett and Sopoaga (unless another player has a blinder).

Centres: Really interesting. I hear a lot of talk of Moala. I like him, but I just think a Moala/Fekitoa combination probably doesn't have the distributing skills necessary to make the most of the wingers. Ryan Crotty and Richard Buckman probably fill that gap well as an alternative. Still not really sure, hoping a player has a really big Super Rugby season.

Outside backs: I hope I've seen the last of Dagg tbh. Outside of that I'm happy with all our current outside backs, who are still young enough to make it to the next RWC. Lowe is another promising option if he ever stays fit.

 

[TheOvalBall]

The rebuilding is certainly going to be interesting to see.

 

[Kiwi_]

1) Joe Moody
2) Dane Coles
3) Owen Franks
4) Sam Whitelock
5) Brodie Rettallick
6) Kaino
7) Richie McCaw/Sam Cane
8) Kieran Read (c)

9) Aaron Smith
10) Aaron Cruden
11) Julian Savea
12) Malakai Fekitoa
13) Ryan Crotty
14) Nehe Milner-Skudder
15) Ben Smith

That's our strongest starting 15 next year IMO. But I doubt we will see it roll out too often, unless there's an important Bledisloe match to be won, or a record to break.

Our bench will look like this;

LeLaulau
Ben Franks
Taylor
Todd
Vito
Ardie
Kerr Barlow
Barett
Moala (being used as wing and centre cover)
Naholo

Wider squad and potential call ups;

Toomaga Allen
Elliot
Liam Coltman
Romano - I'd drop him for Tuipolotu
Broadhurst
Sheilds
Dixon
TJ.Peranara
B.Weber
L.Sopoaga
Ngaiti
Dagg

Ones for the future, maybe in the next 2 - 3 years;

A.Ioane (might get a call up next year to "blood" him)
D.McKenzie
O.Black
J.Lowe

Interested to see how Buckman develops as well, he's a bit of a Conrad Smith type player, not sure he has anywhere near the intelligence of Conrad, but he's definitely a potential option if he develops further.

 

[nickdnz]

Not sure why we'd go with Elliot over Taylor. I think Elliot is a bit too old to look at him as an option for the future - and I haven't heard he's necessarily the kind of guy to excell in an 'experienced leader' type role.

 

[Kiwi_]

Not sure why we'd go with Elliot over Taylor. I think Elliot is a bit too old to look at him as an option for the future - and I haven't heard he's necessarily the kind of guy to excell in an 'experienced leader' type role.

Whoops, I completely forgot Taylor.

I'd even be picking Coltman ahead of Elliot as well.

 

[TheOvalBall]

Kieran Reid hinted he would retire after the British & Irish Lions tour, a while back. That's 2017.

 

[Kiwi_]

Kieran Reid hinted he would retire after the British & Irish Lions tour, a while back. That's 2017.

He will likely be our captain in 2019, unless his form keeps continuing to drop..

 

[Larksea]

it does seem like Sam Cane is being groomed as a Long term captain option. Hes only 23 but hes been in the All Blacks leadership group for two years, maybe longer.

Similar personality ro McCaw but he actually talks a lot more on the field. He even does a lot of the talking in Huddles when hes on the field for the All Blacks.

I expect he will probably be a chiefs co-captian this year with Messam doing 7's

we have a ton of talent around the fringes. potential big movers for 2016

Laulala (could have quite easily made this WC squad)
Coltman/Marshall/Harris - we have a lot of very good young hookers. I think even Taylor will struggle to keep his place.
Edmounds/Goodes (moody will have a challenge to keep his spot from these 2015 super rugby standouts)
Bird (still just 24, under used at the Crusaders which hurt his AB selection chances)
patrick tuipulotu (Almost forgotten about him, hopefully he will be back, hes only like 22)
Akira Ioane (young but looks as much a dead set superstar as anything we have produced in NZ during the professional era, just seemed to get better and better the more rugby he played)
Brad Shields (I can see him jumping up the pecking order over the likes of Vito & Luatua, I think hes already ahead of Vito as far as the hurricanes go)
Matt Todd (IMO hes tailor made for test footy, not quite the height of Cane but he has genuine physicality that can combat guys like pocock, hes 27 so good for 2019)
Brad Weber (guy just looks destined to be an All Black)
Sapoaga (2nd big knee injury for cruden could hamper him, if Lima has another big season it could force his way in)
Moala (absolute beast this year, probably a better player to fill the role of Nonu than Fekitoa, got a test cap this year and looked the part)
Ngatai (still just 25, such a good player but he has a lot of injury problems, got a test cap this year, seems like the kind of player who can fill the conrad smith role if he can stay injury free)
Damien McKenzie (Such an amazing talent, for test footy I think his best position is 10 and I can see him even taking the chiefs 10 jersey off Cruden & Donald)

 

[ABs2011]

I never said chuck them straight in there. I suggested that they will be the next big things. Read will be 34 in 2019, and Kaino will be 36. It's obvious that they will probably step up into those roles. There are 4 years to give them enough experience, because, let's be fair... I don't think either of Read/Kaino will be there. I know we're going to lose a lot of experience in both areas of the park, but realistically, all that matters are World Cups. South Africa are going to be building for 2019 with their young core, and I think that's how we should approach it, even if we are the #1 and world champions.

As I said, Ioane would have to have a breakout season in Super Rugby, like he did in ITM. Yes they are different levels, but as a number 8, you shouldn't really lead the field in number of players beaten. He's not a back, that's a huge stat. You can also tell when the top percentage of talent in NZ play ITM, they make it look easy. He did, he displayed things you see from current All Blacks coming back down to ITM, making other teams, and players, look average. Savea has already been playing Super Rugby for 3 seasons, is it now? And he's already been to a final, he is 22. He played well for Wellington, so I guess he'll have an improvement in Super.

Gidday mate, I wasnt directing that at you, just a general comment based on what I am hearing from many.

One thing I said for pretty much this whole world cup and got challenged on it big time of a few so called rugby brains was, "trust in Hansen and co. they have earned it"!! Well I think these centiments can be well and truely etched in stone now. So, the good thing is, I reckon we can trust in Hansen to deliver in the coming years. If he sees enough in Ardie and Ioane to bring them straight in then great. If he thinks they need a little more time then I guess we will be seeing more of Kaino, Vito, Cane, Todd, Read etc AND maybe even McCaw. Not a bad crop to fall back on right. How good would it for McCaw to be alongside and mentor Ardie while he learns the ropes for the next couple seasons!!

 

[Shaggy]

I agree that Ioane is a great prospect, but genuine question; is he a line out option? ... I'm just curious about the make up of the loosies post Kaino and Read, so if they went with Ioane, would they need a lineout jumping blindside flanker?

I'm a bit torn on the midfield too; I like what Moala does at 12, but I think a player like Ngatai has a more rounded game, and Crotty seems to be Mr Dependable, so, who knows.

I agree with Nick, that Hansen won't be scared to blood new players next year, as he always seems to have one eye on the future.

I'm not sure who they are looking at for the AB coach post 2017, but who ever it is, it would be nice to bring them in as maybe an assistant to ensure some continuity and a smooth transition, much like they did with Henry to Hansen.

 

[nickdnz]

I agree that Ioane is a great prospect, but genuine question; is he a line out option? ... I'm just curious about the make up of the loosies post Kaino and Read, so if they went with Ioane, would they need a lineout jumping blindside flanker?

I'm a bit torn on the midfield too; I like what Moala does at 12, but I think a player like Ngatai has a more rounded game, and Crotty seems to be Mr Dependable, so, who knows.

I agree with Nick, that Hansen won't be scared to blood new players next year, as he always seems to have one eye on the future.

I'm not sure who they are looking at for the AB coach post 2017, but who ever it is, it would be nice to bring them in as maybe an assistant to ensure some continuity and a smooth transition, much like they did with Henry to Hansen.

He's around 6'5'', so if he isn't seen as a lineout option now he could certainly become one. Still huge amount of time to develop (he'll only be turning 21 by the time the June series runs around!!).