[November Tests 2017 EOYT] England vs. Australia (18/11/2017)

[curtbob7]

My issue is not Robshaw and is not Underhill but more them 2 both playing together. Rate them both highly individually but together doesnt give a balance back row but more a defensive one. With little in the way of real go forward. I know the slack can be picked up somewhere else but still.

Id like simmonds to come on, get ball in hand and have a stormer. He is no where near ready to be first choice and has stuff to work on but having 6 Underhill/Robshaw 7 Simmonds 8 Billy gives a good balance. Simmonds doesnt shy away from a tackle either he made about 9 last week on our try line and in the time he was on but attacking given an inch of space he can be so dangerous. I hope we invest time in simmonds to be have a real chance for 2019.

The curry twins are an unknown quantity to me i rate them but dont know how high their ceiling will be,

Be an interesting battle at Welford road Sunday between one of the Curry's and Will Evans.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

6. Underhill, 7. Either Curry, 8. Binny, 20. Simmonds

It's the future.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

6. Underhill, 7. Either Curry, 8. Binny, 20. Simmonds

It's the future.

Useless in the lineout though. I can't see past 6. Itoje/Lawes 7. Underhill 8. Binny 20. Hughes. Only issue with that is a lack of 7 cover but unless Underhill's injured, why would you take him off?

Starting 2 7s with the new breakdown laws just doesn't make sense, even if Underhill is a bit more of a 6.5.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The more I see of Underhill the less he looks like a 7,
The Currys are regular lineout targets at Sale, I presume Underhill jumps occasionally at Bath? He's not exactly a fat lard so I presume he's been lifted before.
We managed well enough in the lineout with Robshaw/Haskell/Binny back row and none of those are exactly Tom Croft.

I'm hoping Simmonds continues to flit between flank and 8 for Exeter so we can bin off Hughes

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

The more I see of Underhill the less he looks like a 7,
The Currys are regular lineout targets at Sale, I presume Underhill jumps occasionally at Bath? He's not exactly a fat lard so I presume he's been lifted before.
We managed well enough in the lineout with Robshaw/Haskell/Binny back row and none of those are exactly Tom Croft.

I'm hoping Simmonds continues to flit between flank and 8 for Exeter so we can bin off Hughes

Why? Last week I thought he was our second best performer behind Underhill. Now that EJ's letting him play his game rather than trying to be a like for like Binny replacement he looks pretty useful on the international stage. If Simmonds out performs him with the opportunities he gets then fair enough, bring him in, but until then I don't think we should aiming to "bin off" Hughes.

 

[BenJeffrey]

Underhill's wrestle with Hooper is probably the biggest 1v1 battle on the park tomorrow. Underhill really needs to rock Hooper early, otherwise I think it'll be the Aussie's afternoon as he gives them so much. For Australia, I feel like the 12/13 combo could be a weakness if England really go at them, both big ball carriers and great players but can be broken apart.

Excitement is building and maybe including Farrell is an additional 10 points from the off. Can't wait to see the impact Itoje makes from the 60 minute mark.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Why? Last week I thought he was our second best performer behind Underhill. Now that EJ's letting him play his game rather than trying to be a like for like Binny replacement he looks pretty useful on the international stage. If Simmonds out performs him with the opportunities he gets then fair enough, bring him in, but until then I don't think we should aiming to "bin off" Hughes.

Because he's like half as good as Binny, and not a good bench option.
Bring him in when Binny is injured, sure, but I wouldn't have him in the 23 when everyone is fit. He either starts or is released back to his club each week, for me.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Because he's like half as good as Binny, and not a good bench option.
Bring him in when Binny is injured, sure, but I wouldn't have him in the 23 when everyone is fit. He either starts or is released back to his club each week, for me.

Brings real impact off the bench. I'd bring him on at 6 to real turn up the ball carrying ability of the pack. Each to their own though.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Brings real impact off the bench. I'd bring him on at 6 to real turn up the ball carrying ability of the pack. Each to their own though.

For someone who voiced their concerns about the lineout just a few minutes ago you sure do want us to ruin the lineout

 

[Scotty]

6. Underhill, 7. Either Curry, 8. Binny, 20. Simmonds

It's the future.

Agree underhill should be our 6 not 7. And billy 8 but i think simmonds could overtake curry and would be hughes on the bench IMO which means fightout between currys and simmonds for 7.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

but i think simmonds could overtake curry.

Why? Tom is clearly above him in the pecking order atm,
If EJ isn't that arsed about having a traditional openside then I could see an Underhill/Simmonds backrow partnership, but seeing how EJ brought the Currys in at 18, started Tom immediately, took him to Argentina and capped him there and then was intending on having him in there vs Argentina shows how highly he's rated.
Especially as EJ has brought this new apprentice thing in for youngsters, but Tom is in as a senior player

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

For someone who voiced their concerns about the lineout just a few minutes ago you sure do want us to ruin the lineout

For the last 20 or so minutes of the game I'm ok with having a slightly dodgey lineout in return for major ball carrying impact in open play. Also, you're suggesting Simmonds who's actually less of a lineout option than Hughes.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

If the Chiefs' pack can't lift a 16st backrower then they need to start eating 2nd breakfasts

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

If the Chiefs' pack can't lift a 16st backrower then they need to start eating 2nd breakfasts

They can lift him but at 6 foot nothing what's the point*. To throw some stats into the mix, Simmonds has taken 2 lineouts this season and Hughes has taken 3. So bringing Hughes on isn't gonna weaken the lineout any less than Simmonds will.

*Just a fun fact; Hepburn's 108kg and 6ft 1. Arguably makes more sense for Simmonds to lift him than the other way around. Jesus he needs to put on weight.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

So the Currys are taller heavier and lineout options,
Remind we why we want this manlet in our side?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Sam "manlet" simmonds.
v
Tom "Manmore" Curry

I really don't see Simmonds overtaking eith curry twins at 7 they are the more complete players despite being younger IMO.

Sam Simmonds reminds me of a young Jordan Crane TBh with is the highest of praise an 8 can get.

 

[Scotty]

Why? Tom is clearly above him in the pecking order atm,
If EJ isn't that arsed about having a traditional openside then I could see an Underhill/Simmonds backrow partnership, but seeing how EJ brought the Currys in at 18, started Tom immediately, took him to Argentina and capped him there and then was intending on having him in there vs Argentina shows how highly he's rated.
Especially as EJ has brought this new apprentice thing in for youngsters, but Tom is in as a senior player

Agreed you make a good point and EJ obv rates currys very highly at young age and rightly so, but this is simmonds first season as a first choice player for chiefs. Meaning if carries on impressing and stepping up his game he could overtake curry. Just because curry is ahead now doesnt mean his mind cant be changed before 2019, both need to develop for england though but first choice of the 2 by the RWC is still to be decided

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Agreed you make a good point and EJ obv rates currys very highly at young age and rightly so, but this is simmonds first season as a first choice player for chiefs.

So he's already 5years behind the Currys then?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

So he's already 5years behind the Currys then?

I'd go for Curry at 7 over Simmonds aswell but tbf, Simmonds has had much stiffer competitition than Curry.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Once again the Aussies have got it into their heads that the best way to approach this fixture is to talk **** about England in the media and make accusations of us... I'm actually kinda fed up with it. They do this every single time and it's such a **** attitude to have.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-un...uses-england-bully-boys-targeting-half-backs/