Next All Black coach?

powerfulduck · Nov 18, 2019

I'm glad Joseph is staying if he can spend the next cycle establishing Japan as a genuine T1 nation then the momentum they built won't be wasted

TheOvalBall · Nov 18, 2019

Keep a good thing going.

Cooper · Nov 18, 2019

Gutted we haven't picked up Joseph, Brown would've come with him too. They would've solved a lot of issues with us tactically and selection wise, but most importantly, it would've fixed our attitude, absolutely gutting.

Foster is now favourite, which is not good, I don't like the direction him and Steve Hansen took the team. We need a new direction and the players need motivation.

Stuart Hogg was absolutely right in his criticism of SBW attitude post England match, a number of our players lacked the right attitude/mind-set. For me this goes on the coaching staff, Foster and Hansen.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...FLh_hcNtXwerZ97e_x_C_wmO26T0P7X9GKiPkwBDgTUj8

David Moffett saying what I said in previous posts about Hansen & Foster staying 2 years too long.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...er-steve-hansen-stayed-too-long-david-moffett

This all points to a complete overhaul of the coaching staff, other than perhaps defensive coach Scott McLeod. Foster is sideways/backwards selection.

Honestly, I don't really see a 'perfect' option now and every other choice will have a question mark over their appointment. I'll be honest in saying I'm genuinely worried for the next cycle.

Umaga's Witness · Nov 18, 2019

Cooper said:
Gutted we haven't picked up Joseph, Brown would've come with him too. They would've solved a lot of issues with us tactically and selection wise, but most importantly, it would've fixed our attitude, absolutely gutting.

Foster is now favourite, which is not good, I don't like the direction him and Steve Hansen took the team. We need a new direction and the players need motivation.

Stuart Hogg was absolutely right in his criticism of SBW attitude post England match, a number of our players lacked the right attitude/mind-set. For me this goes on the coaching staff, Foster and Hansen.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...FLh_hcNtXwerZ97e_x_C_wmO26T0P7X9GKiPkwBDgTUj8

David Moffett saying what I said in previous posts about Hansen & Foster staying 2 years too long.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...er-steve-hansen-stayed-too-long-david-moffett

This all points to a complete overhaul of the coaching staff, other than perhaps defensive coach Scott McLeod. Foster is sideways/backwards selection.

Honestly, I don't really see a 'perfect' option now and every other choice will have a question mark over their appointment. I'll be honest in saying I'm genuinely worried for the next cycle.

I agree there is no perfect option, I'm mainly holding out hope that there will be an option which is strong as a collective. I have my doubts this will happen though with too many of the top coaches unlikely to take assistants roles. We need something like a Henry, Smith, Hansen combo, with Cron As scrum coach. I can't see Rennie cotter Boyd, with Schmidt as tactical assistant happening, unfortunately.

we are more likely to see soMething like cotter Crowley McDonald

maybe if they didn't invite 26 to apply for head coach.

Derpus · Nov 19, 2019

I guess the Wobblies will take the ABs sloppy seconds?

Derpus · Nov 19, 2019

Derpus said:
I guess the Wobblies will take the ABs sloppy seconds?

Nvm we've appointed Rennie.

Kiwiwomble · Nov 19, 2019

Derpus said:
Nvm we've appointed Rennie.

Would we assume the AB's have already told him he's not getting the job? Joseph i can kind of get, sticking with what he's building

The_Wol · Nov 19, 2019

Michael Cheika is free I hear.

Derpus · Nov 20, 2019

Jabby said:
Would we assume the AB's have already told him he's not getting the job? Joseph i can kind of get, sticking with what he's building

Maybe. I think he's been on the Wallabies radar for ages and supposedly had been considering the move for the last few months. Maybe he just stuck with a solid offer?

Edit: also seems that our successful school, under 18 and under 20s teams have factored in.

Kiwiwomble · Nov 20, 2019

Derpus said:
Maybe. I think he's been on the Wallabies radar for ages and supposedly had been considering the move for the last few months. Maybe he just stuck with a solid offer?

true, easy to forget this is their job, a firm offer now, and with potentially lower expectations, might be more attractive than maybe getting the dream job

Derpus · Nov 20, 2019

Pretty happy with the Rennie appointment to be honest. We could have done a lot worse.

Derpus · Nov 20, 2019

Jabby said:
true, easy to forget this is their job, a firm offer now, and with potentially lower expectations, might be more attractive than maybe getting the dream job

I think he largely answers your question:

Kiwiwomble · Nov 20, 2019

Derpus said:
I think he largely answers your question:

i was just coming on to post that....i'm getting slow

GoTheNaki · Nov 20, 2019

I'm heavily assuming it is Scott Robertson. The decision might be middle of next week tbh... I don't believe anything will be revealed this week.

Umaga's Witness · Nov 20, 2019

GoTheNaki said:
I'm heavily assuming it is Scott Robertson. The decision might be middle of next week tbh... I don't believe anything will be revealed this week.

With Mark Robinson as ceo, I wouldn't be at all surprised if we get Robertson, cotter, deans.

Derpus said:
I think he largely answers your question:

I'll be cheering on Australia as my second team, or third after japan.

Growing up I would never have believed I'd be saying that, but growing up the wallabies had the blesisloe, now I just want the rivalry back and if it's not too late I want rugby to come back to life as a sport in Australia, as it's pretty close to dead at the moment.

that was an inspiring talk by Rennie, wanting to bring back the smart and skillful running rugby, it might be hard though as the culture has gone, we aren't seeing it in any of the super rugby teams.

the other video kinda suggested Eddie has recommitted to england?

Im gutted for the all blacks though, as Joseph/brown and Rennie would be my top picks.

I have major doubts about Robertson, I really don't think he has done anything special. Winning super rugby with the crusaders should be the expected result, anything less would be a failure. In saying that,he's an inspirational kind of guy, so if he had the right assistants to do the actual coaching we might be ok.

robertson, Boyd, cotter?

GoTheNaki · Nov 20, 2019

Umaga's Witness said:
With Mark Robinson as ceo, I wouldn't be at all surprised if we get Robertson, cotter, deans.

I'll be cheering on Australia as my second team, or third after japan.

Growing up I would never have believed I'd be saying that, but growing up the wallabies had the blesisloe, now I just want the rivalry back and if it's not too late I want rugby to come back to life as a sport in Australia, as it's pretty close to dead at the moment.

that was an inspiring talk by Rennie, wanting to bring back the smart and skillful running rugby, it might be hard though as the culture has gone, we aren't seeing it in any of the super rugby teams.

the other video kinda suggested Eddie has recommitted to england?

Im gutted for the all blacks though, as Joseph/brown and Rennie would be my top picks.

I have major doubts about Robertson, I really don't think he has done anything special. Winning super rugby with the crusaders should be the expected result, anything less would be a failure. In saying that,he's an inspirational kind of guy, so if he had the right assistants to do the actual coaching we might be ok.

robertson, Boyd, cotter?

I had the exact same tiff with another guy who said that about the Crusaders making Robertson's coaching career. No, they didn't. The Crusaders last won in 2008, before this three-peat. That's a team that had Richie McCaw, Dan Carter, Kieran Read, Sam Whitelock, Owen Franks, Zac Guildford, Israel Dagg etc... That team has been full of All Blacks since forever, you cannot say it's easy to coach the Crusaders to Super Rugby glory because that's untrue. So I would appreciate if people were not to continue that thinking, lol. I actually think he's a very good coach. But I hope he's not biased, he has kinda been a Crusader through and through.

Cooper · Nov 20, 2019

Scott Robertson does not have the experience for the job. Super Rugby has proved to be a weaker competition in the last 4 years. In the past our coaches generally had to earn their stripes in an international gig before being deemed fit for the job. Even john Hart was an assistant during the 87 RWC victory for the AB's. The argument for Scott coming in is that he has 4 years to gain that experience before the next RWC and he knows the players.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...u2VJU-UqMjI-16Cj-_rlUe22c51jJAg03YtJ-fszGulZA
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...u2VJU-UqMjI-16Cj-_rlUe22c51jJAg03YtJ-fszGulZA
Dave Rennie's comments about the All Black's call coming too late sounds like the NZRU is disorganized. Also they asked 26 applicants to apply?

Shortlists should've been cut down to 5 main candidates ages ago. The lack of disorganization here is frightening.

From this evidence it looks like the NZRU seemed set and complacent going with Foster after Hansen retired, but after the shitshow vs England it appears the NZRU are in panic stations realizing Foster ain't up to it.

Steve Tew in his retirement has left things disorganized as well.

Alex Anghel · Nov 20, 2019

While not an expert on NZRU, but a die hard AB supporter since early 80s, I agree with what David Moffett said, namely that Hansen and his staff probably stayed two years too long, thus involuntarily creating an environment of complacency and arrogant self belief among the ABs that finally lead to the semi final disaster against England.

Moreover, this overstaying created further problems in terms of succession, as many of those believing in the continuity factor and tempted to go with Foster were most surely let down by the overall display in the aforesaid semi final defeat, while other proven coaches seemed to be drifted away by this process.

Having said that, I genuinely believe that the ABs needs a fresh change in the coaching panel and its mindset.

Cooper · Nov 20, 2019

Cooper said:
Scott Robertson does not have the experience for the job. Super Rugby has proved to be a weaker competition in the last 4 years. In the past our coaches generally had to earn their stripes in an international gig before being deemed fit for the job. Even john Hart was an assistant during the 87 RWC victory for the AB's. The argument for Scott coming in is that he has 4 years to gain that experience before the next RWC and he knows the players.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...u2VJU-UqMjI-16Cj-_rlUe22c51jJAg03YtJ-fszGulZA
Dave Rennie's comments about the All Black's call coming too late sounds like the NZRU is disorganized. Also they asked 26 applicants to apply?

Shortlists should've been cut down to 5 main candidates ages ago. The lack of organization here is frightening***

From this evidence it looks like the NZRU seemed set and complacent going with Foster after Hansen retired, but after the shitshow vs England it appears the NZRU are in panic stations realizing Foster ain't up to it.

Steve Tew in his retirement has left things disorganized as well.

Fixed**

Agreed Alex, a huge complacency crept into the team post 2015.

Personally I think we need a better conditioning coach as well, we don't have a lot of muscle mass in the forwards and are continuingly losing the physical battles in games.

Umaga's Witness · Nov 20, 2019

GoTheNaki said:
I had the exact same tiff with another guy who said that about the Crusaders making Robertson's coaching career. No, they didn't. The Crusaders last won in 2008, before this three-peat. That's a team that had Richie McCaw, Dan Carter, Kieran Read, Sam Whitelock, Owen Franks, Zac Guildford, Israel Dagg etc... That team has been full of All Blacks since forever, you cannot say it's easy to coach the Crusaders to Super Rugby glory because that's untrue. So I would appreciate if people were not to continue that thinking, lol. I actually think he's a very good coach. But I hope he's not biased, he has kinda been a Crusader through and through.

Whereas I always thought Blackadder was an atrocious coach. He was the coach all that time after 2008 before Robertson was in charge. To not win most years, with that team, was poor coaching. And the teams that won during that time had good coaching - cheika, Rennie, brown, Boyd

Anyway, I'm not saying Robertson is a bad coach, I'm saying there is insufficient evidence to suggest he is a great one. And it's unprecedented to hire an all blacks coach based on insufficient evidence. Again, if he has experienced assistants, that would be a different story, as he clearly is a good motivator

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