Next All Black coach?

Discussion in 'General Rugby Union' started by 40/20, Oct 28, 2019.

  1. 40/20

    40/20 Academy Player

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    Not sure if there's already been a thread on this (apologies if so), but given a certain result over the weekend it seems appropriate to revisit for All Black supporters at least...
    • Foster surely goneski now.
    • Gatland likely to be ruled out due to Lions commitments according to Tew.
    • Schmidt unavailable.
    • Rennie apparently signed, sealed and delivered across the ditch.
    Which leaves Joseph or Robertson unless there's some backroom negotiating on some of those other commitments.

    I'm personally liking Joseph with his mate Tony Brown as an assistant. I really liked Joseph's work at the Highlanders with what was traditionally an underrated pack and he's obviously built on that with Japan.

    Razor is getting a lot of air, but feels too early for me. Lots of parallels with Wayne Smith's appointment back in 2000 and that didn't end well at all. For the team or for Smithy. The fallout from that nearly cost NZ rugby one of the greatest minds in the sport.
     
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  3. Cooper

    Cooper Academy Player

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    I'm with you on Joseph, he has world cup experience under his belt and has visibly improved a tier 2 team beyond expectations.

    Other qualities of Joseph include getting the best out of a smaller player pool. He managed to win the Super Rugby with a patchy Highlanders team through shear hard work and passion, something the All Blacks have lacked recently. I think we will have less to work from in the coming years as well and will need Josephs resourcefulness to get the ebst out of the team.

    I also liken his personality to such legends of sports, such as Sir Alex Ferguson and Brian Clough, I know the comparisons might be a little over the top, but they all had the "common touch" and ability to find the best in their players and motivate them.

    After this RWC, it's clear the Super Rugby competition has not been good. Scott Robinson winning 3 on the trot is an achievement for sure, but Australia have mostly collapsed and SA had their difficulties and his achievements don't rival Jamie's exploits with Japan and the Highlanders. Scott will need to do some international coaching or assistance coaching before we get a good judgement on him.

    Joseph will bring back gutsy forward play and good front foot ball, which we sorely missed this past cycle.


    An outsider I like is Vern Cotter, but he might be too close to retirement now.
     
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  4. mania

    mania First XV

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    i'd like to see gatland get the job. with schmidt brought in as a specialist or assistant coach
    but no rush.
     
  5. Cooper

    Cooper Academy Player

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    I think Gatlin shot himself in the foot during the Lions series, especially with the NZ public? Complaints he's also one dimensional from Welsh fans and UK fans alike.
     
  6. mania

    mania First XV

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    didnt gatland win most of the week games against the superFranchises ? and then went on to hold the ABs to a draw on their turf?
    whilst i agree that the public dont like gats, but shouldn't we looking at the results? no one thought that gats stood a chance. it was one of the harshest lions tour yet they owned the tour i thought.
    and what gats said about nz rugby was true. kiwi's (including myself) are precious and over sensitive about their ABs and need to the fk over themselves (myself).
     
  7. Cooper

    Cooper Academy Player

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    Given the player pool he had to choose from, they should've won the series. Especially since we were going through a transitional period and retirement of some senior players.

    I don't mind him, he's done wonders with Wales. I wouldn't complain too much if he got appointed, he's got the CV for sure.

    Steve Tew ruled it out yesterday though. He said you can't be AB's coach and Lions coach with in 4 years of each other or something, give it a Google.
     
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  8. mania

    mania First XV

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    yes i know what tew said but exceptions are always made. if we have to wait for the best ABs coach then so be it.
     
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  9. donmcdazzle

    donmcdazzle First XV

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    Agree with you on the Joseph / Brown combo. They have worked pretty well together at the Highlanders and Japan.

    The other thing to consider is we should be thinking long term i.e. next 2 world cups. Long term appointments are definitely the way to go I reckon. Wonder if Wayne Smith would be interested in being an assistant again...?

    Gatland I wouldn't mind too much. He has never been a consistent winner, but has probably overachieved with what he has. Seems to be a good defensive coach, knows how to beat the northern teams. Cotter as well has done good stuff up there.

    There is obviously a ton of good kiwi coaches, just need to find the right combo of head coach and assistants. We had the right mix with Henry, Hansen and Smith. Probably not quite as good with Hansen, Foster and McLeod.
     
  10. Cooper

    Cooper Academy Player

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    Not too keen on Joseph?

    Yeah, there does seem to be a lack of options at the moment.

    I was comfortable with Foster taking over, but England f**king owned us, so I'd like to see something fresh and a new direction.
     
  11. 40/20

    40/20 Academy Player

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    I agree his public persona shouldn't be the determining factor, and although his relationship with NZR is reportedly less than great as well, Tew moving on may alleviate that anyway.

    But all that aside, I still think Joseph is a better bet. He's built a track record of succeeding with limited resources and in different environments. That's a massive tick IMO, especially coming into a cycle which feels like a bit of a reset.

    I'm not sure we can afford to wait, can we? Eddie has been planning his campaign for the last 4 years and it took Ted two campaigns to get it right.

    Unless they can get Gats out of his Lions gig - and that's even if he wants out given he's got a massive opportunity to coach them against a SH trifecta - I don't think waiting is the best option if we want a shot at redemption in France.
     
  12. mania

    mania First XV

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    JJs commited to Japan. didnt he renew his contract during the WC?
    i like joseph but dont think he'll come over.
    must say though that tonyBrown must be a contender for asst coach. razor and foster both named him as their preferred assistant and i imagine if joseph decides to run then he'd have brown as well
     
  13. 40/20

    40/20 Academy Player

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    Ah yes, I remember reading something like that now...

    But as you pointed out with Gats, exceptions could be made.

    Definitely agree re: Brown. You'd almost have to say he's a shoe in for an assistant gig if he wants it.
     
  14. Zapphod

    Zapphod Academy Player

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    Is Jake White doing anything over the next few years, give him Robertson as a backup and I think we would do well.
     
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  15. donmcdazzle

    donmcdazzle First XV

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    There is 0% chance we appoint a South African as coach or assistant. Half the coaches at the World Cup were kiwis, we have enough knowledge / talent.
     
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  16. Jabby

    Jabby First XV

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    im bias and really want brown to have a couple of years with the highlanders, we need to settle

    I would be happy with Joseph and Mcleod (also worked well together with the landers) leave razor and brown at super rugby for a couple of seasons but get them involved as special assistants for camps and the like
     
  17. Zapphod

    Zapphod Academy Player

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    We will just have to agree to disagree on this one as I want the best person for the job coaching the All Blacks and I don't care what nationality they are.
     
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  18. donmcdazzle

    donmcdazzle First XV

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    Look I don't necessarily disagree, I am just saying that practically it won't happen.
     
  19. Zapphod

    Zapphod Academy Player

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    Realistically you are right but I think it is a weakness of the NZRFU that they won't consider non-New Zealand coaches.
     
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  20. 40/20

    40/20 Academy Player

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    We've already started (slowly) shifting the goalposts for players so if it has to, I'm sure the same will be considered for coaches.

    But at the moment, I don't think we need to. You'd only bend the rules if the local candidates were materially inferior and while White has a great track record incl. a WC obviously, he hasn't coached internationally since that WC win. I think that alone makes him very long odds.
     
  21. Jabby

    Jabby First XV

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    I think it would be worth considering if we honestly thought the young NZ coaches coming through weren't up to it...sounds like you just want Jake White regardless of the other options
     
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