Next All Black coach?

[Kiwiwomble]

Preferably I'd like to see our best analysist, pundits and an ex-coach/player make up the panel.

so they have to be already associated to NZ rugby?...once again i refer to Mick Byrne

you know four of the five are already heavily involved in NZ rugby, if anything id say the panel was heavily skewed toward the NZ rugby norm

 

[Cooper]

so they have to be already associated to NZ rugby?...once again i refer to Mick Byrne

The comparison between Mick Byrne doesn't work here, he taught physical abilities and skills, also you will find outsiders that can and will have a positive effect, but that won't happen too frequently and you have to be sensible about it.

We need top quality analysis of our tactics, conditioning, opposition analysis, knowledge of our youth emerging, knowledge of our domestic teams and knowledge of the potential recruits tactics, strengths and weaknesses. Mick Byrne was able to help with our skillset.

I don't believe a Netball coach has any in-depth knowledge to help with recruiting an All Blacks coach.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

The comparison between Mick Byrne doesn't work here, he taught physical abilities and skills, also you will find outsiders that can and will have a positive effect, but that won't happen too frequently and you have to be sensible about it.

We need top quality analysis of our tactics, conditioning, opposition analysis, knowledge of our youth emerging, knowledge of our domestic teams and knowledge of the potential recruits tactics, strengths and weaknesses. Mick Byrne was able to help with our skillset.

I don't believe a Netball coach has any in-depth knowledge to help with recruiting an All Blacks coach.

once again i think you're mixing up what the coach needs to know and be able to do with what this panel needs to know and do....they dont need to know all the emerging talent or rugby tactics (although the other members of the panel undoubtedly do)...this panel needs to be able to recognise the type of person/coach that can do those things...if the criteria for the panel was to be able to do all the stuff the actual coach is going to do...just hire one of the members of the panel and save a whole lot of trouble

its coming across like you have more of a problem with her personally or netball in general than anything

 

[Cooper]

once again i think you're mixing up what the coach needs to know and be able to do with what this panel needs to know and do....they dont need to know all the emerging talent or rugby tactics (although the other members of the panel undoubtedly do)...this panel needs to be able to recognise the type of person/coach that can do those things...if the criteria for the panel was to be able to do all the stuff the actual coach is going to do...just hire one of the members of the panel and save a whole lot of trouble

its coming across like you have more of a problem with her personally or netball in general than anything

But the panel does need to know those details, so they know they're hiring the right person that can exploit them, for me that's common sense and logical.

As for your final point, don't try twist me into being a bad guy with a chip on my shoulder for thinking a netball coach doesn't have the credentials for being part of the panel because of the sports low profile/competitiveness and tactical depth.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

But the panel does need to know those details, so they know they're hiring the right person that can exploit them, for me that's common sense and logical.

As for your final point, don't try twist me into being a bad guy with a chip on my shoulder for thinking a netball coach doesn't have the credentials for being part of the panel because of the sports low profile/competitiveness and tactical depth.

that not how ive ever hired people or been hired when talking about a pinnacle type role ...ive often been hired BECAUSE i was bringing something to the party they didn't have/know and the same when i started hiring people....if i knew it all i wouldn't need them.

thats the approach you take when you are filling the ranks, we have 2 FTE's worth of work and only 1 FTE...so we need another that knows this list things.....when filling a singular type role you're looking for a type of person...there would be an assumption anyone applying for the top of the pyramid would know the nuts and bolts, the panel will be evaluating the type of person, do they have a vision, do they have faults and if they do are they humble enough to surround them self with others that offset those...theres probably half a dozen people on this forum that have an expert understanding of the talent coming through...doesn't mean they are Head Coach of the All Black material

 

[Cooper]

I don't really get the comparison between your job and the All Blacks job. I'm not sure where you work, but I will assume it's a company of some sorts and you were hired because you had relevant connections to the job description and academic qualifications for the job.

This is a Rugby Union coaching job, the best coaching job in the sport.

They've recruited someone who has zero connection or qualifications in the sport as part of the panel to help oversee the appointment of the next coach. For me this could've worked if netball was a high profile sport and competitive/tactical, but it's simply not and that's the guts of why I believe they should have someone else.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I don't really get the comparison between your job and the All Blacks job. I'm not sure where you work, but I will assume it's a company of some sorts and you were hired because you had relevant connections to the job description and academic qualifications for the job.

This is a Rugby Union coaching job, the best coaching job in the sport.

They've recruited someone who has zero connection or qualifications in the sport as part of the panel to help oversee the appointment of the next coach. For me this could've worked if netball was a high profile sport and competitive/tactical, but it's simply not and that's the guts of why I believe they should have someone else.

i guess the comparison is i was hired by someone that couldn't do my job, they just knew the type of person they were looking for...im happy that one elite sport coach will have at least some valid input on one what it take to be a elite sport coach

i guess another point...we have no idea on what she knows about rugby...she might actually be a huge rugby nerd, so unless there is some evidence she will do a bad job...lets assume she was chosen...once again...to help advise on the hiring of the coach...for good reason

 

[donmcdazzle]

im surprised at this if im honest, everywhere ive worked has always been about the next new idea, and largely that's is most easily achieved by bringing in and "outsider"

Its standard engineering design practice to have Red and Green teams, one forwards the concept/reference design and the other stays completely involved until review stages at which point they come in and deliberately try and take an unexpected approach to see if the idea is robust of if the green team has just followed the norm

this is the first time ive heard anyone say there is no evidence diversity helps drive innovation or success, if i said that in the circles i work in id expect it to be compared to "theres no evidence sliced bread makes sandwiches easier"...its self evident

staying the course/norm, shunning new ideas lead to companies like nokia, blackberry and kodak

But new ideas don't necessarily come from 'outsiders'. For every Kodak, there's another company innovating and doing great things without relying on outsiders for innovation.

There genuinely isn't any proof. We have been subject to a number of talks by experts on it, they all advocate for diversity, but none have pointed to any studies that have proven it makes a difference. Diversity of thought can come from within as well as from externally.

In your analogy, imagine a lawyer rolled up and started criticising the design, doubt they'd add anything. Sounds like you have other engineers reviewing stuff / approaching it differently (innovation from within).

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Both Schmidt and Gatland are just too big of a coaches to work as anybody's assistants at this stage in their career.

Schmidt I think would prefer a less full on role at the moment. Gatland is committed to the lions the next few years and could well see all blacks assistant as an avenue into the top job. This one is probably less likely but I'd happily take a bet that Schmidt will be some kind of assistant. I wouldn't put more than 50 on it, but...

 

[Umaga's Witness]

We have the NZ Women's Netball team coach, Noeline Taurua as part of the selection panel for the new coach.

Nothing against her, but what relevance she has with Rugby Union is anyone's guess, let alone being a major contributor to who the next All Blacks coach is.

I can see how it might seem odd, but I think she has relevance. The most important aspect to winning a World Cup is the psychological aspect. Netball is intensely difficult psychologically, there is a lot of pressure, it is high paced so there is little ability to calm the nerves, you really just need to stay on top of them. The silver ferns handles the nerves really well in the last World Cup, and if you follow netball you will have seen many occasions where teams haven't quite handled the pressure, in big finals and semifinals. Same as rugby, but more obvious.

She is just part of a panel, each member will be bringing different insights so they don't all need to know the same stuff. I'm sure she isn't going to argue with ted on the finer points of rugby tactics.

apparently the selection panel for the English football team in the last World Cup was made up of a whole lot of random people outside the sport, even outside sport at all.

 

[Cooper]

I can see how it might seem odd, but I think she has relevance. The most important aspect to winning a World Cup is the psychological aspect. Netball is intensely difficult psychologically, there is a lot of pressure, it is high paced so there is little ability to calm the nerves, you really just need to stay on top of them. The silver ferns handles the nerves really well in the last World Cup, and if you follow netball you will have seen many occasions where teams haven't quite handled the pressure, in big finals and semifinals. Same as rugby, but more obvious.

She is just part of a panel, each member will be bringing different insights so they don't all need to know the same stuff. I'm sure she isn't going to argue with ted on the finer points of rugby tactics.

apparently the selection panel for the English football team in the last World Cup was made up of a whole lot of random people outside the sport, even outside sport at all.

The English football team is the last place I would look for inspiration haha.

This might cause a stir, but I think it's purely just a diversity gimmick.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

The English football team is the last place I would look for inspiration haha.

This might cause a stir, but I think it's purely just a diversity gimmick.

The English football team performed well above their potential, reaching the semifinals

 

[Cooper]

The English football team performed well above their potential, reaching the semifinals

That's not true. They performed as they should with the squad they have.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

That's not true. They performed as they should with the squad they have.

That's not my view.. we hear a lot about England underperforming but in reality that is their media and fans having criminally high expectations. There are a number of countries who consistently have a superior player pool- Brazil Argentina Germany Italy France Spain for example.they don't typically underachieve like the media tells us, they typically perform as should be expected. The last world cup being the exception. Yes they had a better team than they usually do, but they also had a good coach. Anyway I'm no football expert so I could be wrong.

Another way of thinking about why they might have chosen a netball coach to select an all blacks coach is this: they were happy with a panel of four. A fifth rugby mind would make the situation worse, after all there will be a an ideal number for those discussion and being able to come to agreement. But a different perspective might add something without making it harder to agree.

 

[TheOvalBall]

Why isn't Wayne Smith given the job again ?

 

[GoTheNaki]

Well lads... My cousin wouldn't tell me anything, tight lipped *******.

 

[Derpus]

Netball is a low profile sport that is largely semi-professional and only a handful of competitive countries. Usually it's a 2/3 horse race for the World Cup, I'm just failing to see what crucial insight she could possess to help the recruiting process.

Sounds like Rugby to me...

 

[Kiwiwomble]

so they have to be already associated to NZ rugby?...once again i refer to Mick Byrne

you know four of the five are already heavily involved in NZ rugby, if anything id say the panel was heavily skewed toward the NZ rugby norm

A dislike @Derpus ?

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Why isn't Wayne Smith given the job again ?

Good question. Ì don't think he wants it.

 

[Derpus]

A dislike @Derpus ?

Sorry m8 misclick