[Natwest 6 Nations] Round 4 : France Vs England (10/03/2018)

[Jimbo]

Why do you need a aggressive tackler at 10 though?
I don't understand it why do you need a dominant tackling 10?
Is cips a dominant tackler?
He tackles just isn't a good tackler.

RE Tigers nah, Tigers made the realisation that maybe an good forwards coach will produce a good performance from the forwards which in turn gives the 10 a easier job.
Or do you seriously think that all a teams problems can be placed on 1 player? Esp since Tigers went 7 wins in a row with George Ford at 10.....

People mention Sarries defence like it's god like with Faz being a big reason, but have you seen them with Barritt not there?


Dominant tackler BTW.

The whole problem clearly stems further than Ford, my point is simply that on the back foot he is not good and he concedes a lot of ground which when you are already struggling compounds the issue, maybe I incorrectly used the term "dominant" which seems to be what you are picking most of your counter argument on, would be nice to have a 10 that accepts he is going to have to make a tackle and initiates it on his terms rather than keeps back peddling for as long as possible conceding a lot of ground, is that really too much to ask?

If we are now comparing cips to Ford in my view cips is better in almost every aspect of the game...

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Well i'm not surprised you think Cips is better, yet also don't want a 10 to back peddle in the tackle.
Unlike Cips I haven't seen Ford ever choose not to tackle when he has had too. (His technique is **** at times goes too high, but he always go for the tackle when he has too).

interesting that according to ESPN stats he made the same amount of tackles and missed the same amount of tackles as Robshaw did. (Hughes only made 1 tackle...) (Saying that i don't tend to trust stats).

 

[Maverick1987]

Intrigued to here the 10+ options ahead of him. Please also indicate whether they are fit or not.

That sounds sarcastic but I don't think I'd manage that many.

Well just pick any English qualified actual flanker in the premiership and you have a start ..... Lawes wasn't even the best 6 in an England shirt !

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

@TRF_Olyy It's your fault because you bet on England to win dammit.

 

[higgik]

Why do you need a aggressive tackler at 10 though?
I don't understand it why do you need a dominant tackling 10?
Is cips a dominant tackler?
He tackles just isn't a good tackler.

RE Tigers nah, Tigers made the realisation that maybe an good forwards coach will produce a good performance from the forwards which in turn gives the 10 a easier job.
Or do you seriously think that all a teams problems can be placed on 1 player? Esp since Tigers went 7 wins in a row with George Ford at 10.....

People mention Sarries defence like it's god like with Faz being a big reason, but have you seen them with Barritt not there?


Dominant tackler BTW.

Agre you need and defensive leader, someone who call the plays in defence. For Sarries it is Barritt and that is why he valued so much. He is vocal and tells defenders where to go in the line and when to step up and when to sit. Currently there is no one in the England team who has that role. There is the same problem in the backs as the forwards, no real leaders, I think Farrell is too hot headed and needs a calm influence around him to keep him on point. Exactly what Barritt does, Ford is too quiet. I think Nowell could be an answer at OC, with Daly, Watson and Solomana as back 3.

Team for Ireland
15. Daly (straight swap)
14. Watson (ditto)
13. Joseph
12. Te'o
11. Solomana
10. Farrell
9. Wigglesworth (more consistent kicker and organiser than Care, will boss forwards better as well)
1. Marler (give Mako rest, but also better coming on when game is more open)
2. Hartley (but needs to bring back some aggression, not been aggressive enough this year)
3. Williams (close call but Sinckler better finisher)
4. Launchbury
5. Lawes
6. Haskell (his passion has been missed)
7. Underhill (Robshaw but quicker)
8. ??? Ewers

Finishers
16. George
17. Mako
18. Sinckler
19. Itoje
20. Simmonds
21. Care
22. Ford
23. Losowski (looks good and can play as any inside back with the back 4 being interchangeable)

 

[Jimbo]

Well i'm not surprised you think Cips is better, yet also don't want a 10 to back peddle in the tackle.
Unlike Cips I haven't seen Ford ever choose not to tackle when he has had too. (His technique is **** at times goes too high, but he always go for the tackle when he has too).

interesting that according to ESPN stats he made the same amount of tackles and missed the same amount of tackles as Robshaw did. (Hughes only made 1 tackle...) (Saying that i don't tend to trust stats).

Indeed I am a Wasps fan so probably some biase there, I'm not talking about tackles being missed just ground conceded, that example was pretty funny Farrell made every attempt to make a good hit but the law of physics dictates he wasn't going to win that one, very few 10s in world rugby could to be fair.

I don't think we will agree on some things and Ford on front foot ball really can unlock a defence, few other passes his ability there but you can't always be dominant this is where he struggles some times a squad needs to be picked to suite the game, if it's not a game you are not going to dominate on the front foot perhaps Ford should not be picked for the game, that doesn't mean he shouldn't come on for some impact with defenders tiring or be dropped completely, but if his style of play is not going to have a positive impact and his channel is going to be targeted and he is going to concede easy meter one has to ask what use they are to the team in that particular game?

 

[Fuzzy du Plessis]

Some of that's true but he hasn't been good for a while, is it conisidence that Leicester have played better in his absence than they have all season?

That's not true - Tigers best stuff this season was mid-September through to November, during which Ford started every match. The current upturn is solely down to the pack sorting its **** out after being easily one of the worst in England for 3 months.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Well just pick any English qualified actual flanker in the premiership and you have a start ..... Lawes wasn't even the best 6 in an England shirt !

Give me 10?

Lawes is a top class lock, and if the back row was more balanced (ie not Robshaw at 7) it wouldn't have been such a **** show. I just want to hear about the 10

 

[TRF_Olyy]

There were three in the 23 today

 

[Jimbo]

That's not true - Tigers best stuff this season was mid-September through to November, during which Ford started every match. The current upturn is solely down to the pack sorting its **** out after being easily one of the worst in England for 3 months.

Maybe so we can expect a top four finish from the Tigers this season, they just beat No2 in the premiership without word class Ford so should have no issues with him....

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Maybe so we can expect a top four finish from the Tigers this season, they just beat No2 in the premiership without word class Ford so should have no issues with him....

we also beat the number 1 Prem team with Ford at 10 soooooo......you know......

 

[Jimbo]

we also beat the number 1 Prem team with Ford at 10 soooooo......you

.

Maybe we can see Ford show he is better than both Farrell and Cips in the play offs

 

[Jimbo]

Agre you need and defensive leader, someone who call the plays in defence. For Sarries it is Barritt and that is why he valued so much. He is vocal and tells defenders where to go in the line and when to step up and when to sit. Currently there is no one in the England team who has that role. There is the same problem in the backs as the forwards, no real leaders, I think Farrell is too hot headed and needs a calm influence around him to keep him on point. Exactly what Barritt does, Ford is too quiet. I think Nowell could be an answer at OC, with Daly, Watson and Solomana as back 3.

Team for Ireland
15. Daly (straight swap)
14. Watson (ditto)
13. Joseph
12. Te'o
11. Solomana
10. Farrell
9. Wigglesworth (more consistent kicker and organiser than Care, will boss forwards better as well)
1. Marler (give Mako rest, but also better coming on when game is more open)
2. Hartley (but needs to bring back some aggression, not been aggressive enough this year)
3. Williams (close call but Sinckler better finisher)
4. Launchbury
5. Lawes
6. Haskell (his passion has been missed)
7. Underhill (Robshaw but quicker)
8. ??? Ewers

Finishers
16. George
17. Mako
18. Sinckler
19. Itoje
20. Simmonds
21. Care
22. Ford
23. Losowski (looks good and can play as any inside back with the back 4 being interchangeable)

Liking that selection Daly probably the only player to give a reasonable account of themselves today, not sure about 15 at international but feels like an almost nothing to loose game bar upsetting the Irish grand slam, probably better to experiment a bit...

 

[Pom in Exile]

I don't rate Devoto too highly. Jack of all trades but master of none seems an appropriate thing to say about him. He can playmake but he's not particularly good at it. He's 102kg so he can ball carry but he rarely makes breaks or grinds too many metres. He can kick but not too a very high standard. Think he'd turn out to be distinctly average at international level.

So Billy Twelvetrees then?!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Even as a joke that is disgusting.

So much potential.
Big, Strong, good tackler, Hell of a pass, quickish, nice Hair and had a big boot should have stayed at Tigers and developed. Oh well.

 

[Jimbo]

Even as a joke that is disgusting.

So much potential.
Big, Strong, good tackler, Hell of a pass, quickish, nice Hair and had a big boot should have stayed at Tigers and developed. Oh well.

Didn't realise he was a tigers player, assumed he came through Gloucesters academy.

 

[mad-dog]

long time lurker and a few drunken points to make...
Breakdown=Shite
Our inability to look after the ball is shocking.
I know this will go down like a lead balloon but Steffon Armitage really would make a world of difference. The man can carry and he'll win turnovers for days. Hasn't been in the spotlight for a while but he dominated in Pau vs Gloucester.
I thought Robshaw was admirable, seemed like the only bloke on the field playing with his heart. Feel for Lawes as he's a bloody good lock but just isn't an international 6.
Sod it, why not Cips over Ford? If you're gonna have a 10 that's gonna get trampled on no matter what, why not have one that can create something out of nothing?
Also, time for Cole to go. He looks lost out there. Sink was quality. And I hate to say it but thought Haskell brought a lot when he came on.

 

[MikeTheNative]

You could put the New Zealand back line out for England and they would struggle due to terrible ball retention from the forwards. I don't think I've ever seen an test team get pinged for that out of holding on over a few games. It's not only the Lawes at 6 issue but England keep trying to win rucks with one player, now teams are really targeting this and it's a so easy for the opposition team.

 

[Maverick1987]

Give me 10?

Lawes is a top class lock, and if the back row was more balanced (ie not Robshaw at 7) it wouldn't have been such a **** show. I just want to hear about the 10

You nailed it . Lawes is a top class LOCK . As a matter of fact I'd still have him in the team and drop Itoje to the bench .

The 10 would be
1. Ewers
2. Armand
3. Willis
4. Haskell
5. Robshaw
6. Graham
7. Wilson
8. Underhill
9. Mercer
10. Mike Williams

There's likely more too .... There's literally no need to be playing a lock in the back row . All Eddie is doing by continuing it is hanging Lawes out to dry .....

 

[TommiG88]

A view from the ground...

I felt the penalty try was harsh. Anywhere else on the pitch and that's just a penalty, and a harsh one at that.

Camara dropped the ball, and then just tripped Daly up as he came to collect. Isn't that a pen and yellow? Or can you trip someone after you've made a mistake?

On to England themselves. Bloody awful. Only after the changes did we start running hard and direct into contact. Teo was bloody woeful, that pass summing it up.

I don't need to cover our breakdown work, apart from it's an embarrassment for an international team to be so shoddy. I personnally think the Exeter team could beat England at the moment.

Changes in the back row against Ireland are required, unless we want to be on the end of a drubbing.