[Natwest 6 Nations] Round 4 : France Vs England (10/03/2018)

[Maverick1987]

I think you could play Lawes at 6 if you had a specialist 7 and Billy in as he does good work at the breakdown too.

For me though it's not just the back row. It's about balance throughout the pack. It's weak in carriers and full of workhorses

I can't agree simply because I've never seen a lock who can play 6 as well as an international class 6 .....

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Farrells technique means that he either misses the tackle because he isn't in a position to make by flying out of the line before the pass, or he's gone too high and the guy ran through him

 

[RugbyMarvel]

I can't agree simply because I've never seen a lock who can play 6 as well as an international class 6 .....

I didn't say it would be my first choice but it wouldn't be as ineffective if that was the choice

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Farrells technique means that he either misses the tackle because he isn't in a position to make by flying out of the line before the pass, or he's gone too high and the guy ran through him

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

He is much better without question, Ford just allows sooo many meters to be made, they both miss tackles but Ford never puts in dominant hits, he always seems to be back penddling before contact is even made, at least Farrell gets off the line and takes the contact to the opponents.
Don't think there's a lot between them kicking from hand though, not to mention the fact that he's a Sarries player so probably has as good understanding of the defensive system as anyone.

But why do you need your 10 to be the one to put in dominant hits? They are not flankers FFS.

 

[ncurd]

But why do you need your 10 to be the one to put in dominant hits? They are not flankers FFS.

Watched too many Wilko tackling highlight reels and forgotten what a fly half is actually supposed to do.

 

[Maverick1987]

I didn't say it would be my first choice but it wouldn't be as ineffective if that was the choice

He wouldn't be a top 10 choice at 6 for me and it's one of Eddie Jones biggest mistakes imo

We are literally trying to win international rugby games without a back row right now

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

But why do you need your 10 to be the one to put in dominant hits? They are not flankers FFS.

Picking a 10 on defence is dumb. You have 10's who are good defenders like Sexton, Wilkinson and Carter but they're also better going forward than anyone who was a potential rival to their positions. Ford is a better attacking 10 than Farrell but he would struggle massively without his second playmaker because he's about as much of a running threat as Dan Cole. Farrell isn't a good playmaker from 10, he will have some great touches when completely dominant but throw a well organised defence in his face and he usually kicks the ball away in frustration after a few phases. If you could put Ford in Farrell's body you'd be sorted because it'd provide a running threat. England either need to be so dominant that today's axis works or find a replacement for Ford, I think the former is more likely as it has been achieved in the past.

 

[Maverick1987]

Picking a 10 on defence is dumb. You have 10's who are good defenders like Sexton, Wilkinson and Carter but they're also better going forward than anyone who was a potential rival to their positions. Ford is a better attacking 10 than Farrell but he would struggle massively without his second playmaker because he's about as much of a running threat as Dan Cole. Farrell isn't a good playmaker from 10, he will have some great touches when completely dominant but throw a well organised defence in his face and he usually kicks the ball away in frustration after a few phases. If you could put Ford in Farrell's body you'd be sorted because it'd provide a running threat. England either need to be so dominant that today's axis works or find a replacement for Ford, I think the former is more likely as it has been achieved in the past.

Well the choice for the latter is slim . It's either Ford, Lozowski, Slade or Cipriani

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Devoto IMO would be perfect player to bring through at 12 but not sure what his stance is at Exeter.

 

[Maverick1987]

Here's an interesting question . Name the teams in the top 10 in the world rankings that are NOTICABLY worse than us at the breakdown ......

 

[ncurd]

Devoto IMO would be perfect player to bring through at 12 but not sure what his stance is at Exeter.

Is Devoto the guy though couldn't get a starting place for Bath didn't manage it Exeter either. I think the lad sadly isn't good enough.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Devoto IMO would be perfect player to bring through at 12 but not sure what his stance is at Exeter.

I don't rate Devoto too highly. Jack of all trades but master of none seems an appropriate thing to say about him. He can playmake but he's not particularly good at it. He's 102kg so he can ball carry but he rarely makes breaks or grinds too many metres. He can kick but not too a very high standard. Think he'd turn out to be distinctly average at international level.

 

[Amiga500]

Before blaming just the players in the pack for slow ball - if you are running 20 metres across the pitch and backwards to the next ruck, then your never gonna have much momentum for the next collision.

The English coaches have to adjust several things, primarily their resourcing of the ruck and second to that their lack of a straight runner to give the forwards an easy target to clear and generate quick ruck ball.

[But obv player do play a part.]

 

[TRF_Olyy]

We're down an 8,
EJ wants to play a lock in the backrow,
We need some pride back in the shirt,
Someone who knows what it is to play for England, someone raised in an environment where giving anything less than your absolute all to your country was a failure

Hell, he would even improve our kicking game



Don't @ me

 

[McTallshort]

Picking a 10 on defence is dumb. You have 10's who are good defenders like Sexton, Wilkinson and Carter but they're also better going forward than anyone who was a potential rival to their positions. Ford is a better attacking 10 than Farrell but he would struggle massively without his second playmaker because he's about as much of a running threat as Dan Cole. Farrell isn't a good playmaker from 10, he will have some great touches when completely dominant but throw a well organised defence in his face and he usually kicks the ball away in frustration after a few phases. If you could put Ford in Farrell's body you'd be sorted because it'd provide a running threat. England either need to be so dominant that today's axis works or find a replacement for Ford, I think the former is more likely as it has been achieved in the past.

No the problem is the pack not giving Ford the platform it's their responsibility to give him the armchair ride he needs to work his magic

 

[RugbyMarvel]

He wouldn't be a top 10 choice at 6 for me and it's one of Eddie Jones biggest mistakes imo

We are literally trying to win international rugby games without a back row right now

Intrigued to here the 10+ options ahead of him. Please also indicate whether they are fit or not.

That sounds sarcastic but I don't think I'd manage that many.

 

[McTallshort]

Before blaming just the players in the pack for slow ball - if you are running 20 metres across the pitch and backwards to the next ruck, then your never gonna have much momentum for the next collision.

The English coaches have to adjust several things, primarily their resourcing of the ruck and second to that their lack of a straight runner to give the forwards an easy target to clear and generate quick ruck ball.

[But obv player do play a part.]

Good point well made

 

[Jimbo]

But why do you need your 10 to be the one to put in dominant hits? They are not flankers FFS.

We are not comparing all fly halves just the two we currently use, you want the whole team to be making as dominant hit as possible, at least loosing as little ground as possible, Ford is never the agresser always allows the impact to be on the oppositions terms rather than get stuck in, tackling comes from 1 - 15 it's a shared responsibility you can't teally expect flankers to make up for other players being inadequate.

I mentioned it earlier, as a tigers fan you will be better placed to say but is it coincidence that in Fords absence they actually seem a better team?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

We are not comparing all fly halves just the two we currently use, you want the whole team to be making as dominant hit as possible, at least loosing as little ground as possible, Ford is never the agresser always allows the impact to be on the oppositions terms rather than get stuck in, tackling comes from 1 - 15 it's a shared responsibility you can't teally expect flankers to make up for other players being inadequate.

I mentioned it earlier, as a tigers fan you will be better placed to say but is it coincidence that in Fords absence they actually seem a better team?

Why do you need a aggressive tackler at 10 though?
I don't understand it why do you need a dominant tackling 10?
Is cips a dominant tackler?
He tackles just isn't a good tackler.

RE Tigers nah, Tigers made the realisation that maybe an good forwards coach will produce a good performance from the forwards which in turn gives the 10 a easier job.
Or do you seriously think that all a teams problems can be placed on 1 player? Esp since Tigers went 7 wins in a row with George Ford at 10.....

People mention Sarries defence like it's god like with Faz being a big reason, but have you seen them with Barritt not there?


Dominant tackler BTW.