MMA/UFC thread

[Cruz_del_Sur]

He is biting more than he can chew and someone will rearrange his jaw sooner than you think.
If he beats Khabib i'll shut up and acknowledge he deserves to be among the best. I want him to beat a fully camped top tier wrestler in 155. No wonderboy, no Diaz.
You wanna be the best, well, let's put that take down defense to the test, against the best.

Dan Henderson kinda favours Khabib.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

If he beats Khabib i'll shut up and acknowledge he deserves to be among the best.

That's how I feel.
There's no denying that he's a superstar of the sport, there's no denying he's an excellent striker, but I still think there's a question mark over his grappling and ground work. The grapplers and BJJ fighters he've fought haven't fought to their strengths/his weaknesses because he gets in their head and makes them want to stand and strike with him. When Chad wanted him on the ground he took him down with ease. When Conor took Nate down Nate dominated him on the ground. Eddie chose to stand and got his head taken off. Aldo chose to lunge in and got his head taken off.
You look at the Jon Joneses, the Anderson Silvas, the GSPs they were complete mixed martial artists. They could dominate wherever the fight was.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I agree with everything you wrote except for one thing. GSP's name doesn't spring to mind when i'm thinking "complete". He was just freakishly good at one thing, he knew it, his opponents knew it, but there was very little they could do about it. He just went there, tried to box, and the split second he thought he could be outboxed he just took you down, and slowly punish you (a bit). I think in his mind, he had this safety net and that made him incredibly confident.

Personally, i think BJ Penn, at his best, was out of this world. He destroyed the LW division and was top 2 in WW at a time when you had guys like GSP to fight against.
I recall his first fight against GSP BJ saying: "I lost and ended up dancing all night, GSP won and ended up in the hospital, go figure".

I would pay a small fortune too watch GSP vs Khabib and Khabib vs BJ (all at their best and in a mid category weight wise).

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Is this working, friend sent me this thought it was hilarious.

 

[Larksea]

Conors rise so far has been interesting.

He is obviously very good but at the same time his record is questionable in terms of him being a "great"

I consider myself a fan of his, I do think he's unique but I also see the other side of things.

Actually I would say the only time he has had a fight you can really judge him by was when he fought Max Holloway. max was a good prospect at the time and Mc beat him by decision. The rest of the guys he fought early on were not really top level guys. Max was very green and has come a long way since then but he was still very good at the time.

vs Diaz, at 170. All I see is that neither of them are genuine 170lb fighters. Connor made Diaz out to be a monster and much bigger than him but he wasn't. Nate hardly cut weight for those fights and only had a few lbs over conor. I think overall Diaz won those fights. Finished him in the first and the 2nd was a razor thin decision against him where you could argue he won that fight - also consider that Diaz took some injuries into that fight and wasn't his best. I also think if the fight went another round Diaz would have won. At the end of the day no belts were on the line and it was just for entertainment...

vs. Mendes both fighters were well below par for this fight. Mendes looked like crap and was unprepared, short notice. And IMO Conor looked like the weight cut went really badly.
This was meant to be vs. Aldo. and IMO I think if Aldo had turned up for this fight it would have been very tough for Conor in the state he was in.

vs. Aldo. what do you take from this 13s fight? IMO Conor was completely and utterly in Aldo's head. If Aldo had a gameplan for that fight it went out the window after about 5 seconds. The high pressure spotlight that Conor created on Aldo took him completely out of his element. I would note that for this fight Conor looked amazing, his weight cut clearly went perfectly. Kinda a shame we didn't get to see a battle.

vs. Eddie. IMO Eddie isn't/wasn't a top level lightweight. His win over RDA was a shock result. Gave him the ***le and gave Conor what was IMO an easy shot. That said RDA has somehow taken a hard fall in form. Eddie also suffered from the same problem as Aldo, he melted under the extra large spotlight that is around Conor. When RDA beat Bendo, Pettis & Cowboy he looked insane. now he looks like a bottom-mid of the top 10 fighter again. makes me wonder if RDA had a good run on PEDs and had to drop off them because of the extra testing... A lot of Brazilian fighters have dropped off the radar since USADA arrived.

Next, for all he has done he has not defended a belt. not once... He has been able to plot a course forward without having to answer a serious challenge to defend.

Serious challenges for Conor.
khabib - he cant match Conors standup but his ground game is so insane, given its easier to get into a clinch than land a KO that is an advantage for Khabib.
Diaz at 155 - IMO I think Diaz at 155 is a nightmare for Conor, Diaz had the range to catch conor and the chin & defence to resist his shots and take the fight deep.
Ferguson - similar to Diaz, has range, has a chin and becomes more dangerous when he gets hit or hurt. Like Diaz he has a very good submission game so when he hurts guys he then chokes them out like Diaz did to Conor.

I think these guys all pose a bigger threat than anything he has faced so far at 145-55. Partly because they aren't the type of guys who will melt under the spotlight like Aldo & Eddie and the others. Tony & Khabib want the spotlight and Diaz doesn't give a f*@%

Holloway, Aldo and Edgar at 145 but it seems silly now for Conor to go down to 145 again. It is a big cut for him and it will get harder as he gets older, more so after bulking up a bit for 155+ fights.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Latest talk is that Aldo might be chasing conor up to lightweight to get the rematch.
Holloway can't/won't fight him at 208 so Aldo is trying to get a LW fight (apparently he was offered one of Ferguson/Khabib but they refused, which makes sense as it's a big risk for very little reward, considering they're both deserving of a ***le shot).

 

[Larksea]

yeah, Aldo is desperate for a Conor rematch and Conor is unlikely to go to 145 gain soon. Its a bold move because he would be a bit undersized at 155.

the fight that seems to make the most sense right now is Khabib.

The thing is Conor doesn't really seem interested in defending ***les. His attitude is kinda like hes won the ***le and that's it. Actually defending them seems below him he wants something different.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

The thing about Khabib is not just how good he is once he gets you to the ground, it is how easily he can take people to the ground. That
In a way, it is his and only his decision whether the fighting occurs on the ground or not. In that sense (the differ in other aspects) he is a bit like GSP.

Unless McG pulls and Aldo on Khabib, i don't see him winning. I don't see McG getting inside Khabib's head either.

 

[Larksea]

yeah as I said I dont see Khabib or Ferguson getting put off by Conors mind games as much as Eddie & Aldo did (he completely mind f&*%ed those two). Diaz is really the only guy who has resisted Conors mind games and the big spotlight around him.

That said Khabib isn't unbeatable, even in this recent MJ fight he looked out classed on the feet and he got desperate for a take down. Of course the fight became one sided once Khabib got it to the ground but MJ did land some shots and rattled Khabib a bit early.

IMO MJ got a bit aggressive when he started to land shots and that opened him up to the takedown. I dont think Conor would make that mistake and he is also better at hitting guys as they come in and moving back as well. MJ is best at his range and going forward.

Probably the bad sign for Conor is that hes never really been tested with takedowns, part of that is because he hurts guys before they get a chance to take him down. We have never really seen Conor have to employ or rely takedown defense, he does use push kicks to manage range.

Mendes did him down fairly easily, and if he can Khabib can. And you can bet he will do a better job on top than Mendes did. mendes only really managed to land one shot and gassed himself out trying.

Bit off topic here but that Mendes scenario. I don't get how fighters work/train like he did and a lot of fighters seem to. It seems like they have a fight then they switch off and stop training, start eating crap again and basically let themselves go.... Then another fight gets scheduled and they do a ~8 week intensive training camp and go on a strict diet before the fight, basically over train and beat themselves to a pulp trying to get into shape. have the fight and then let themselves go and the cycle continues.

Mendes is like this, IMO one fighter who is the perfect example of this is Ronda Rousey. I'm a huge fan of hers but when a fight is finished she totally lets herself go, she eats **** and she drinks hard, she puts on weight and she drinks a ton of coffee. A big part of that is her trainer Edmound, he is bad for her overall. He has the same personality and rather than grounding her and getting her to be more cerebral he just feeds her ego. I think Edmound is a very good striking coach but he should not be her head coach and he should not be doing her overall tactics and cornering. Losing to Holly Holm was 100% poor tactics, game-plan and cornering.

Anyway I say this because if Mendes was the type of fighter that maintained his condition and dicapline after a fight i think his short notice fight with Conor would have gone a lot differently. he would have been a lot better and as I mentioned before Conor looked poor in that fight, his weight cut obviously didn't go well and he didn't regain condition well after the weigh-in.

Two fighters who are good in that way are Holm and Conor, they keep training after a fight and maintain their discipline. Conors diet is crap but most fighters diets are crap because they get bad advice, so at least they are on an even playing field in that respect. Holm is always in great shape, she is one of the bigger 135 women but probably doesn't cut as much as other fighters do because she is always in shape.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Conor got pushed up against the cage by a 90% unconscious Alvarez, Eddie couldn't do anything with it but I'd back Khabib if he's still got a pulse - I think (as said above) unless Khabib gets slept with a clean shot then he's getting conor down. His autopilot wrestling, even if he's wobbled, is better than anyone else in the weightclass.

 

[munstermuffin]

Lads all this UFC is turning out to be like WWE.

That's all i'd to say

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Lads all this UFC is turning out to be like WWE.

That's all i'd to say

And how is that a bad thing?

"HE HAS A FAMILY!!!!!"

 

[munstermuffin]

And how is that a bad thing?

"HE HAS A FAMILY!!!!!"

And if my aunt had balls
She would be my uncle

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

And if my aunt had balls
She would be my uncle

So you only think there is 2 genders?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

So Rousey or Nunes?

I hope Nunes wins, but suspect Rousey will win and the hype train we grow again.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Genuinely have no idea,

Don't even know who I want to win, I still quite like Ronda, and she doesn't deserve even 1% of the hate she's gotten after the Holm fight. Hate her gym, though, and also a lot of her fans are ridiculous (though comes with being a big Star, I mean look at mcgregor fans).

5 round war would be nice to see, but can't see it going the distance.
Ronda looks in ridiculous nick, tough. Looking like her strike force self. Could well just come out and armbar Amanda in 10s. But then Amanda is (I think?) the best BJJ practitioner she'll have fought, and I think I read she's a black belt in judo. Obviously not on Ronda's level but she'll be more comfortable with her clinching.

Most looking forward to seeing Cruz/Cody though, Cruz has completely destroyed Cody in the build up and made him look like an angry toddler. He's gonna put a clinic on him.
TJ vs Lineker is gonna be a banger as well

 

[SelimNiai]

So Rousey or Nunes?

I hope Nunes wins, but suspect Rousey will win and the hype train we grow again.

I could make an off colour joke about Rousey and making things grow.


But I wont

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Hahahahahaha, Jesus Christ that was embarrassing.
As dominant as Ronda was in her earlier career, that's as dominant as Nunes was tonight.

Biggest mistake of Ronda's career was turning down an invitation to join Kings MMA and sticking with Count Chocula, considering Edmund calls himself a top level boxing coach she just has ZERO boxing fundamentals.
Presume that'll be the last we see of her, probably ever. Especially after taking home $3m to show, plus PPV cash.


Also how about Cody Garbrandt?! Completely wrote him off before, though Dom would "cruz" to a decision, but he looked phenomenal. A fight against TJ Dillashaw will be fireworks, both style wise and because they have bad blood.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

That was really, really i mean really bad. I was perplexed happy and sad at the same time. I was perplexed at how bad Ronda's stand up is (her guard is simply non existent, she apparently is incapable of moving her head, etc), happy when someone with a big mouth gets put in his/her place and sad because she didn't (fully) deserve to end up her career this way, at least not in such a spectacular fashion.
I try to put myself in RR's shoes before the HH's fight and picture a worst case scenario: wouldn't have been as bad as what actually happened.


This destroys her in a lot of ways. Think about her acting gigs. Most of those gigs are not only fighting related but mostly stand up situations. I'm pretty sure fighting on the ground is not very popular with Hollywood audiences. After the way she lost her last two fights, how much does her purse go down for her next movie? I mean, both weren't just loses. She got dismantled, torn apart. This was "please make it stop" material. The fight was stopped while she was still on her feet. That's how bad it was.

If you show her last two fights to someone who is not into mma and doesn't know RR s/he would probable say something along the lines of: "these UFC mother ****ers are so cruel for putting an amateur in the same cage with a pro". We know that's not true but that is what it looked like.

Some people will question RR's coaches/trainers, but she's got no one else but herself to blame. She was also the one who opened her mouth claiming she would retire undefeated and mouth trashing whatever opponent was placed in front of her. Some of her antics againt Miesha and HH were embarrassing to watch, and that's part of the reason why people do not like her. She (and probably her camp) has been telling herself "they hate me because i am that good" or "haters gonna hate", which is simply ridiculous. She sowed divisiveness animosity and hate, well, that's what you'll reap.
A lot of people disliked GSP, Silva or BJ, but people didn't hate them, at least not in the way nor numbers they do RR.

To add insult to injury, imagine this scenario: Cyborg fights Nunes, beats her, and then says: "this is why RR has been avoiding me for the last years. "I'm the champ this, i'm the champ that", pfff, you were only the champ because you refused to fight me".

My rational side believes she deserves this, but my emotional side feels sorry for her. The fight reminded me a bit of Forest Griffin vs Silva.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

That was really, really i mean really bad. I was perplexed happy and sad at the same time. I was perplexed at how bad Ronda's stand up is (her guard is simply non existent, she apparently is incapable of moving her head, etc), happy when someone with a big mouth gets put in his/her place and sad because she didn't (fully) deserve to end up ,..................

My rational side believes she deserves this, but my emotional side feels sorry for her. The fight reminded me a bit of Forest Griffin vs Silva.

Nicely said and I concur. I too feel a twinge of guilt whilst I'm self aware enough to recognise that I do enjoy her demise. I suspect that some of her monumentally bad sportsmanship was tactical to maintain psychological dominance. She created such fear that her opponents were beaten before entering the cage. That said she shouldn't be surprised that people will now use these defeats to destroy any aura she had, that's the game.

Completely agree about her bubble. After HH she could have gone back to basics and returned a credible fighter. She surrounded herself with yes men and this is the result. I'm not sure there's any future for her. As you said that looked amateurish at best. Any half decent striker poses significant danger to her well-being. She's never going to dominate again, the fear is gone and the opposition is better.if I were her adviser I'd strongly suggest she just retires and tries to find something that makes her happy.