Lions: Return to Oz

[TRF_Olyy]

I've seen people say Denton is actually a better 6 than 8...

But if he a better 6 than Lydiate/Ferris?
He showed in the Six Nations he's as good an 8 as any other in the Six Nations, so I'd have no qualms about him playing there - could be between him and O'Brien, with their versatility.

 

[McTallshort]

Right forgot the unwritten rule of Lions selection threads "No English player is allowed to be selected above an Irish or Welsh one".

Ferris or Croft? Croft everytime for me.

Lydiate or Croft? Thats a bit tougher.

Someone even mentioned Heslip, not sure why as he has not put in a good game at international since 2009

 

[big ginger 8]

Right forgot the unwritten rule of Lions selection threads "No English player is allowed to be selected above an Irish or Welsh one".

Ferris or Croft? Croft everytime for me.

Lydiate or Croft? Thats a bit tougher.

Someone even mentioned Heslip, not sure why as he has not put in a good game at international since 2009

Croft ahead of Ferris or Lydiate no way. Apart from lineout play he's not better than them in any facet of the game. Heaslip despite some poor form for a while is still a quality player he has had good games since 09 no one really thinks he'll start at the moment but most think hee'll make the tour. He also seems to be getting back to his best and if he's at his best he's the best 8 available.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Croft ahead of Ferris or Lydiate no way. Apart from lineout play he's not better than them in any facet of the game.

Very much this.
To say that Croft is better than Ferris one eyed to the extreme - anyone would think you were a Tigers fan...

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

If Wales go to Australia and smash them in every single game would people on here want a mostly Welsh team? I don't that won't happen but just a thought??

On the whole Croft/Ferris/ Lydiate debate i actually really don't rate Croft at all. I find that he is always in the wrong place on the pitch for a 6 and although he is a great line out operator he just isn't a top notch 6.

My flankers would be Ferris, Warbutons (can't remember the spelling so sorry) & Morgan/ Denton depending on who does best over the summer tours. I think Heaslip needs to have a great game again, i think he is being carried a bit by the other quality Irish BRs. Although if he has a stormer i'd pick him any day of the week.

 

[lucky number 7]

Right forgot the unwritten rule of Lions selection threads "No English player is allowed to be selected above an Irish or Welsh one".

Ferris or Croft? Croft everytime for me.

Lydiate or Croft? Thats a bit tougher.

Someone even mentioned Heslip, not sure why as he has not put in a good game at international since 2009

Good trolling

 

[McTallshort]

If Wales go to Australia and smash them in every single game would people on here want a mostly Welsh team? I don't that won't happen but just a thought??

On the whole Croft/Ferris/ Lydiate debate i actually really don't rate Croft at all. I find that he is always in the wrong place on the pitch for a 6 and although he is a great line out operator he just isn't a top notch 6.

My flankers would be Ferris, Warbutons (can't remember the spelling so sorry) & Morgan/ Denton depending on who does best over the summer tours. I think Heaslip needs to have a great game again, i think he is being carried a bit by the other quality Irish BRs. Although if he has a stormer i'd pick him any day of the week.

Like against France?

As for being one eyed ask yourself this...Does ferris offer what Croft does in open play? No he doesnt.

The whole Irish backrow (and forward pack) had a pretty poor 6N. Lack of competion for places and an out of date game plan showed up some very big holes in the Irish talent pool. LYdiate is a class act and if the Lions want to play a grafting defensive 6 then pick him. If like in the previous Lions tour you want a 6 that offers a real attacking threat then you go for Croft.

 

[big ginger 8]

Like against France?

As for being one eyed ask yourself this...Does ferris offer what Croft does in open play? No he doesnt.

The whole Irish backrow (and forward pack) had a pretty poor 6N. Lack of competion for places and an out of date game plan showed up some very big holes in the Irish talent pool. LYdiate is a class act and if the Lions want to play a grafting defensive 6 then pick him. If like in the previous Lions tour you want a 6 that offers a real attacking threat then you go for Croft.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Ferris offers more as instead of simply running fast he runs fast and over people, has a good offload and actually does the grunt work as well.

And prop was the only position in the forwards a lack of depth was shown up and as discussed before in other threads that should be gone hopefully within the next 5 years.

 

[lucky number 7]

Like against France?

As for being one eyed ask yourself this...Does ferris offer what Croft does in open play? No he doesnt.

The whole Irish backrow (and forward pack) had a pretty poor 6N. Lack of competion for places and an out of date game plan showed up some very big holes in the Irish talent pool. LYdiate is a class act and if the Lions want to play a grafting defensive 6 then pick him. If like in the previous Lions tour you want a 6 that offers a real attacking threat then you go for Croft.

LOL
Yes

 

[McTallshort]

Yes of course he does.......He just runs over people because hes so hard blah blah blah.

Like Ferris hes a good player but he will find it tough getting selected ahead of Lydiate or Croft.

 

[lucky number 7]

Yes of course he does.......He just runs over people because hes so hard blah blah blah.

Like Ferris hes a good player but he will find it tough getting selected ahead of Lydiate or Croft.

He shouldn't though

 

[McTallshort]

He will

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He won't though :huh:
He's pretty much guaranteed the 6 shirt if he doesn't die - he's just that good.
Lydiate will be pushing him close, mind - Croft won't be.
He's had 1 good game in an England shirt since the Lions tour, and, as pointed out above, likes to hang out with the backs rather than getting stuck in like a blindside should do.

 

[big ginger 8]

He will

Expand what does Ferris do badly?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'll tell you what is funny i was playing rugby a couple of months ago and we had a lineout (i play 2nd row). i got dropped quite badly and ended up in a daze for a little bit. When i finally got up i was on the wing and the ball was being passed down the line. I took the last pass and demolished their fullback to go in for the try.

Now every back was really impressed but all the forwards were laughing that i took so long to get up.

my point is that (apart from wanting to share my grory!) is that croft hangs out in the packs waiting for moments like that. Every reply you see he is on the wing and that is not the job of a 6.

The thing with the england back row is we pick a 6. Corft who in open plays acts like a 7 and then we pick a 7. Robshaw who plays like a 6 in all the tight areas! Thats why croft looks ok in the englad shirt becasue Robshaw is doing 2 x peoples jobs!

Croft does offer a lot of good traits but but his work in the loose is not actually his job, which is why Ferris beats him every time. I'd rather have 6. Wood 7. Robshaw for england anyway and when woods fit we might actually see that.

 

[McTallshort]

He won't though :huh:
He's pretty much guaranteed the 6 shirt if he doesn't die - he's just that good.
Lydiate will be pushing him close, mind - Croft won't be.
He's had 1 good game in an England shirt since the Lions tour, and, as pointed out above, likes to hang out with the backs rather than getting stuck in like a blindside should do.

Can we please stop with this ferris worship, saying he is guaranteed the 6 shirt is a bit silly given the competion for that shirt.

One good game? really? thought he had a very good 6ns in all the games he played in. Not sure Wood could have done much better.

 

[McTallshort]

Expand what does Ferris do badly?

He does nothing badly but he will have stiff competion so he will have a real fight for the test spot, he is not the "shoe in" everyone thinks he is.

 

[McTallshort]

I'll tell you what is funny i was playing rugby a couple of months ago and we had a lineout (i play 2nd row). i got dropped quite badly and ended up in a daze for a little bit. When i finally got up i was on the wing and the ball was being passed down the line. I took the last pass and demolished their fullback to go in for the try.

Now every back was really impressed but all the forwards were laughing that i took so long to get up.

my point is that (apart from wanting to share my grory!) is that croft hangs out in the packs waiting for moments like that. Every reply you see he is on the wing and that is not the job of a 6.

The thing with the england back row is we pick a 6. Corft who in open plays acts like a 7 and then we pick a 7. Robshaw who plays like a 6 in all the tight areas! Thats why croft looks ok in the englad shirt becasue Robshaw is doing 2 x peoples jobs!

Croft does offer a lot of good traits but but his work in the loose is not actually his job, which is why Ferris beats him every time. I'd rather have 6. Wood 7. Robshaw for england anyway and when woods fit we might actually see that.

Sorry that ignores all the work he does in the lineout and in defense (tyr saving tackle against France) and why if you had someone with Crofts pace would you have him scrapping on the floor? Let the tight five and the 7 do that and get Croft supporting the backs in open play, its how Geech used him in 09 and how Lancaster used him against France and Ireland in this years 6N

 

[Teh Mite]

Croft currently isn't a patch on the player he was 3 years ago.


In a neat way, that sums the current debate up - none of these players will be on the same form as present by the time the tour happens. Some will improve, some will dissapear.

 

[big ginger 8]

He does nothing badly but he will have stiff competion so he will have a real fight for the test spot, he is not the "shoe in" everyone thinks he is.

You said you'd pick Croft every time over Ferris obviously you don't actually consider it to be stiff competition.

Have you watched Ireland and Ulster this year? You said he was poor for Ireland which makes me think you didn't watch them as everyone was saying either him or Kearney was Ireland's best player and he was in some people's opinion a candadaite for player of the tournament. While for Ulster he's always there best forward and 9 times out of 10 their best player he's got a bucket load of MotM awards in the H Cup and from th times he's played Rabo.