Lions: Return to Oz

[TRF_Olyy]

Cian Healy is not as good as Big Ginger 8 thinks.
Cian Healy is not as bad as many make him out to be.

He is very very good in the loose, and holds up adequately in the scrum these days (a lot of people judge his scrummaging on what it was like a couple of years ago - considering he's about 10years off of prime-propping age he's going to keep improving, and has done so far).

I would be happy to see him on the Lions tour, and if he proves himself over the next 18months (and the tour) then whose to say he won't make the matchday 22/23.

 

[Conal]

however olyy
jenkins is a good as he is going to get

while young cian should only get better ! so we shall see by next summer

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ah, but Gethin at the moment is B, Healy is somewhere between A and C:

While Healy is good, and improving, he's a way off overtaking Gethin, who is hardly likely to implode over the next year. He'll be 32 by the time the tour comes round, and will have had a season in the Top 14, which has arguably the strongest packs in Europe.

 

[Conal]

fair enough
anyways the squads big enough to bring both one might take a knock etc

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Yet Healy who's apparently poor scrummager completely bested Kepu at the WC.

He bested Alexander, who was at TH. And then Slipper. Kepu is a TH, who Deans thinks can play LH. He found himself against Mike Ross who had a monster game. If Oz has Benn Robinson back, they can have a decent scrum. Not dominant, but not bad enough to say that "any B&I prop will run them over". Australia have three or four props that can avoid a massacre, but have really little depth. Only a few injuries away from the Daley-Fainga'a-Ma'afu front row that got destroyed by England in 2009 (and that had, may I remind you, 5 caps combined).

I'd say that if Australia can present a first choice (or close to first choice) scrum, even with Adam Jones, Jenkins and the best scrummagers the Lions wouldn't be getting penalty tries all over.

 

[welshglory]

He bested Alexander, who was at TH. And then Slipper. Kepu is a TH, who Deans thinks can play LH. He found himself against Mike Ross who had a monster game. If Oz has Benn Robinson back, they can have a decent scrum. Not dominant, but not bad enough to say that "any B&I prop will run them over". Australia have three or four props that can avoid a massacre, but have really little depth. Only a few injuries away from the Daley-Fainga'a-Ma'afu front row that got destroyed by England in 2009 (and that had, may I remind you, 5 caps combined).

I'd say that if Australia can present a first choice (or close to first choice) scrum, even with Adam Jones, Jenkins and the best scrummagers the Lions wouldn't be getting penalty tries all over.

Agreed, i think some people are getting a bit too carried away. Also look out for Dan Palmer, he's supposed to be the best scrummager in Aus but hasn't been selected because he doesn't score tries and put in fancy offloads...

If the Aussies pick a front five of 1.Robinson 2.Moore 3.Palmer/Ma'afu 4.Simmons/Wykes/Pyle 5.Horwill then they will hold their own.

 

[psychic duck]

I would take Corbisiero or James ahead of Healy tbh, both can play tighthead if needs be and both better scrummagers than Healy

 

[big ginger 8]

He bested Alexander, who was at TH. And then Slipper. Kepu is a TH, who Deans thinks can play LH. He found himself against Mike Ross who had a monster game. If Oz has Benn Robinson back, they can have a decent scrum. Not dominant, but not bad enough to say that "any B&I prop will run them over". Australia have three or four props that can avoid a massacre, but have really little depth. Only a few injuries away from the Daley-Fainga'a-Ma'afu front row that got destroyed by England in 2009 (and that had, may I remind you, 5 caps combined).

I'd say that if Australia can present a first choice (or close to first choice) scrum, even with Adam Jones, Jenkins and the best scrummagers the Lions wouldn't be getting penalty tries all over.

But I'm not the one saying we'll get penalty tries. I said I'd expect dominance which is IMO reguarly pushing them back (not obscene amounts) and a clear majority of the penalties.

 

[TNT88]

Australia have three or four props that can avoid a massacre, but have really little depth. Only a few injuries away from the Daley-Fainga'a-Ma'afu front row that got destroyed by England in 2009

Spot on. We can put together a solid scrum, but a few injuries and it goes out the window.

We do have some good front rowers coming through the ranks though, and hopefully we see some of them in gold in 2012.

 

[Peat]

I don't understand, instead of trying to hit Australia in the weakest part of their game, you want to pick players on the basis of trying to catch-up with what Australia are good at?

We will hit Australia there almost definitely no matter who we pick. All four Home Nation scrums are at a better level than the Australia scrum.

We may or may not get a reward for this, depending on how the ref is gamed.

If we do not try to equal Australia in the loose, our defence to their attack, we make things incredibly difficult for ourselves. Australia have displayed the ability to tear up average defences even when being dominated in the forwards. Plus, if we want to run it at all, we need a pack quick and strong enough to counter Pocock.

I believe defence will be key to this series, as will the breakdown. The scrum, by contrast, is more difficult to call. So, given that the choices given are unlikely to destabilise us in that area, I would concentrate selection on defence and the breakdown.

 

[McTallshort]

Line out! do not forget the bloody line out! we lost the last test in 2001 because the Aussies did us in the line out. Ireland are the line out kings in the NH and we need to take some of that with us. Tom Croft and AWJ could end up being key to the series

 

[Feicarsinn]

Line out! do not forget the bloody line out! we lost the last test in 2001 because the Aussies did us in the line out. Ireland are the line out kings in the NH and we need to take some of that with us. Tom Croft and AWJ could end up being key to the series

Are we? Oh my.

The Lions won't be short on line out options in any case. Although after how shambolic the Welsh were in that department during the 6 nations I'd only consider Iain Evans from their lot at the moment. Richie Grey, Paul O'Connell, Iain Evans and Courtney Lawes would do.

 

[Peat]

Would rather take Parling than Lawes - better lineout operator, better carrier (yes I am breaking my own rules here as Lawes is the better defender).

Tbh, I can't see the lineout being critical, as neither team will be setup to destroy the other's lineout, but should be ok on their own. Although POC and Gray with a bit of practice would be fun.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Will be interesting to see which locks tour/make the test side. There are a number of very good locks, just need to find the right balance of lineout and carriers (POC and Gray, both on form, would be cracking).

 

[McTallshort]

Parling is better than Lawes but Croft is always the go to man in the England line out

 

[Feicarsinn]

Parling is better than Lawes but Croft is always the go to man in the England line out

But playing Croft would mean not playing Stephen Ferris.

And that's down right absurd.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yup, Lydiate would/should be ahead in the pecking order as well.
Sean O'Brien too (hopefully Gatland and crew realise he's a 6/8, not a 7)

 

[Feicarsinn]

Yup, Lydiate would/should be ahead in the pecking order as well.
Sean O'Brien too (hopefully Gatland and crew realise he's a 6/8, not a 7)

Yeah, we have some quality options at 6. Seriously, we have at least 3 world class players there. I'd bring O'Brien as an 8 for that very reason.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, we have some quality options at 6. Seriously, we have at least 3 world class players there. I'd bring O'Brien as an 8 for that very reason.

O'Brien is pretty much made for the bench in this occasion.
Ferris, Warburton, Heaslip/Morgan/Denton
O'Brien

Tasty.

 

[Peat]

I've seen people say Denton is actually a better 6 than 8...