Latest world rankings disappointing reading

Sixesandsevens · Sep 23, 2011

Saintjay said:
Just a thought in about 11 games this year including the world cup games Ireland have won 5/11. This is including a narrow win over Italy. Hence there world ranking at the moment.
Again if they play in the knock out stages as they did against the USA they will struggle. Don't get me wrong I think Irish rugby is superb the provincial club teams show that.

I am sure the young Northampton Saints players in the England squad would say they are pretty experienced at club/knock out comps, and you do have some very experienced players both at club and world cup level in the team.

Northampton players arent that experienced at winning it though, just a mickey mouse cup to show for it!

Saintjay · Sep 23, 2011

Sixesandsevens said:
Northampton players arent that experienced at winning it though, just a mickey mouse cup to show for it!

You missed my point that they have experience of getting to the final. Just the same as Sexton and co.

lucky number 7 · Sep 23, 2011

Teh Mite said:
When did it become 2009 again? :blink:

Ban them ...ban them all Bulitt!

psychic duck · Sep 26, 2011

Latest World Rankings - 26/09

I think Tonga are a bit over rated by these rankings, I think Fiji are better than 16 despite their dissapointing result on Sunday, Russia are better than Namibia and Portugal, Canada are overrated as well, Georgia beat them in November and I believe are better

other than that I agree

Toko_11

Bench Player

Sep 26, 2011

#125

I think top 10 is very accurate. but below that everything is mixed up

T

Teh Mite

TRF Legend

TRF Legend

Sep 26, 2011

#126

Sixesandsevens said:
Northampton players arent that experienced at winning it though, just a mickey mouse cup to show for it!

I'll have you know there are 2 mickey mouse cups to their names, thank you very much.

N

NJR1

Academy Player

Sep 26, 2011

#127

I'd have Italy over Samoa.

C

Canucks

Academy Player

Sep 26, 2011

#128

psychic duck said:

I think Tonga are a bit over rated by these rankings, I think Fiji are better than 16 despite their dissapointing result on Sunday, Russia are better than Namibia and Portugal, Canada are overrated as well, Georgia beat them in November and I believe are better

other than that I agree

I actually think these rankings are spot on right now with the issue being France and Ireland should swap places but I imagine these rankings don't take into count the French defeat by the ABs.

Much better than last week where Canada was ahead of Samoa. Clearly Samoa are the better team. Canada is at 12 because they beat Tonga who beat Japan. Canada vs Japan results may upset this a bit. Results in November unfortunately have less of a bearing as time goes on. I agree that Russia should be higher.

SelimNiai

'Ark at ee mun!

Sep 26, 2011

#129

How can a side who have made the RWC (Russia) be a lower ranked team than one who hasn't (Portugal)

M

Moody Fool

Academy Player

Sep 27, 2011

#130

SelimNiai said:
How can a side who have made the RWC (Russia) be a lower ranked team than one who hasn't (Portugal)

Because that is how the ranking system works. For all the innumerate forum-goers in the audience; when you win, your points go up. When you lose, your points go down. Since Portugal hasn't played and Russia has lost all their games, Russia has dropped below Portugal. Portugal's ordinal ranking has changed, but their points have not. This is not rocket science.

SelimNiai

'Ark at ee mun!

Sep 27, 2011

#131

Moody Fool said:
Because that is how the ranking system works. For all the innumerate forum-goers in the audience; when you win, your points go up. When you lose, your points go down. Since Portugal hasn't played and Russia has lost all their games, Russia has dropped below Portugal. Portugal's ordinal ranking has changed, but their points have not. This is not rocket science.

But logically if Russia have made it to the WC (no toilet jokes please) and Portugal didn't surely that makes Russia better?

Then again logic isn't a word used by the IRB very often

psychic duck

International

Sep 27, 2011

#132

SelimNiai said:
But logically if Russia have made it to the WC (no toilet jokes please) and Portugal didn't surely that makes Russia better?

Then again logic isn't a word used by the IRB very often

it is strange that Russia are now below Portugal, the Bears actually qualified above Romania in the European qualifying zone and started the RWC 19th but somehow have gone below Namibia who also lost all matches

TRF_stormer2010

Moderator

TRF Legend

Sep 27, 2011

#133

psychic duck said:
it is strange that Russia are now below Portugal, the Bears actually qualified above Romania in the European qualifying zone and started the RWC 19th but somehow have gone below Namibia who also lost all matches

Agreed. Could it be because the teams Namibia lost to were higher ranked (and thus had less of an influence) than the teams Russia lost to?

Tricia McMillan

Academy Player

Sep 27, 2011

#134

stormer2010 said:
Agreed. Could it be because the teams Namibia lost to were higher ranked (and thus had less of an influence) than the teams Russia lost to?

Points gains and losses also count double for World Cup fixtures, Romania had quite a big lead in the points over the Russians in the first place.

Portugal aren't playing right now so their rankings points are just going to stay the same until they play again.

Dizzy

First XV

Sep 28, 2011

#135

im sure there is a "explanatory" page on the IRB website of how it all works.

M

Moody Fool

Academy Player

Sep 29, 2011

#136

I suspect doubling the gains and losses during the wc is more to add to the excitement than anything else and may serve to distort the ratings.

I have two thoughts:

1) points matter more than spot on the ladder in judging a teams strength, as well as their average position over a long time. If the 10 and 20 teams have half a point between them, and 10 and 9 have a 20 point gap, obviously points are a better indicator of relative strength.

2) the system would work better if there were more matches played. More active sides generate better data. If there were more international tourneys the rankings would work better.