World Cup rankings 1-20

[psychic duck]

Absoloutely right. The result was THEY WON. As did the Maori in 2005. If they don't like the fact, they should have put out a stronger side.

However, you're trying to make out like it was full strength club side who beat Australia and the Boks. It really, REALLY wasn't.

But I'm sure you disagree. Therefore you'll find it completely suitable to miss the point of the rep system again.

maybe Australia and South Africa didn't care about those tour matches as much as the clubs ...

Munster side that beat Australia (names in bold players who don't regularly feature in Heineken Cup starting lineups)

Johne Murphy
Doug Howlett
Keith Earls
Sam Tuitupou
Denis Hurley
Paul Warwick
Duncan Williams
Wian du Preez
Damien Varley
Peter Borlase
Billy Holland
Ian Nagle
Peter O'Mahony
Niall Ronan
James Coughlan

Australia side that lost

Lachie Turner
Luke Morahan
Pat McCabe
Anthony Fainga'a
Rod Davies
Berrick Barnes
Luke Burgess
Ben Daley
Saia Fainga'a
Salesi Ma'afu
Rob Simmons
Dean Mumm
Scott Higginbotham
Matt Hodgson
Richard Brown

 

[Teh Mite]

Squad players that feature are not regular first choice players. Good effort though.

 

[psychic duck]

Squad players that feature are not regular first choice players. Good effort though.

I ask you this question ... who would win full strength South Africa v full strength Leicester or Saracens?

full strength Australia v full strength Munster or Ospreys?

full strength Argentina v full strength Northampton?

England v the Reds

 

[Rhyer]

I could just as easily say France lost to New Zealand twice and Tonga.......

I'm not saying how great France was though.

 

[Rhyer]

I ask you this question ... who would win full strength South Africa v full strength Leicester or Saracens?

full strength Australia v full strength Munster or Ospreys?

full strength Argentina v full strength Northampton?

England v the Reds

I think you underestimate just how good club sides are. Crusaders or the Reds could easily beat England or France because they play together constantly as a unit as do Leicester and Northampton.

 

[lucky number 7]

I reckon the 3 best sides in the World at the moment are Leinster , The All Blacks and the Reds

 

[Teh Mite]

I ask you this question ... who would win full strength South Africa v full strength Leicester or Saracens? SA over Leicester, Sarries over SA.

full strength Australia v full strength Munster or Ospreys?

full strength Argentina v full strength Northampton?

England v the Reds

Next

 

[Rhyer]

I reckon the 3 best sides in the World at the moment are Leinster , The All Blacks and the Reds

I think I would agree with that. Maybe add Toulouse to that list.

 

[lucky number 7]

I was going to add Toulouse too , I haven't watched alot of them with McCalister however.

 

[dullonien]

Not so sure myself. I think people are overestimating club sides. Most players, and former players comment on the fact that international is a step-up from anything played at club level (yes this includes the HC and Super 14). This is usually highlighted by the fact that some players are simply unable to make the step-up to international rugby despite looking pretty good at club level. I know some club teams appear to be of a higher calibre, but I'm not quite sure they really are. I'd say the calibre of players in the Ireland squad is superious to that of Leinster (basically because there's another 3 provinces involved), yet ln7 you think Leinster would beat Ireland?

I don't think any of the Welsh regions would have a hope in hell of beating a full strength Welsh side, because there's always a few positions where the calibre of player is simply not good enough (especially if we take into account the full squad of say 30-35 players). I know there have been recent exaples of clubs beating international sides, but both teams have been depleated, resulting in basically a one off game where anyone can win on the day.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Talk to an international player and ask which is harder out of international footy or club. I guess the argument is club teams have much more time together training etc. European clubs are helped by the fact they have foreigners who are better than (or equal to) the international counterparts from the country the club resides in (eg Nick Evans is the equal or better of Flood), but in NZ and Aus the international sides would beat all the provincial sides within. The Reds are not better than the Wallabies.

 

[lucky number 7]

Not so sure myself. I think people are overestimating club sides. Most players, and former players comment on the fact that international is a step-up from anything played at club level (yes this includes the HC and Super 14). This is usually highlighted by the fact that some players are simply unable to make the step-up to international rugby despite looking pretty good at club level. I know some club teams appear to be of a higher calibre, but I'm not quite sure they really are. I'd say the calibre of players in the Ireland squad is superious to that of Leinster (basically because there's another 3 provinces involved), yet ln7 you think Leinster would beat Ireland?

I don't think any of the Welsh regions would have a hope in hell of beating a full strength Welsh side, because there's always a few positions where the calibre of player is simply not good enough (especially if we take into account the full squad of say 30-35 players). I know there have been recent exaples of clubs beating international sides, but both teams have been depleated, resulting in basically a one off game where anyone can win on the day.

Yes ...Leinster would most likely knock Ireland senseless , The link between the players is far better , they play a better style of winning rugby.

 

[Teh Mite]

Not so sure myself. I think people are overestimating club sides. Most players, and former players comment on the fact that international is a step-up from anything played at club level (yes this includes the HC and Super 14). This is usually highlighted by the fact that some players are simply unable to make the step-up to international rugby despite looking pretty good at club level. I know some club teams appear to be of a higher calibre, but I'm not quite sure they really are. I'd say the calibre of players in the Ireland squad is superious to that of Leinster (basically because there's another 3 provinces involved), yet ln7 you think Leinster would beat Ireland?

I don't think any of the Welsh regions would have a hope in hell of beating a full strength Welsh side, because there's always a few positions where the calibre of player is simply not good enough (especially if we take into account the full squad of say 30-35 players). I know there have been recent exaples of clubs beating international sides, but both teams have been depleated, resulting in basically a one off game where anyone can win on the day.

How about 13 Ospreys beating England?

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Yes ...Leinster would most likely knock Ireland senseless , The link between the players is far better , they play a better style of winning rugby.

Is that more an issue with the coaching staff, then?

 

[Teh Mite]

Is that more an issue with the coaching staff, then?

It's the familiarity of the team, (thus the ability to work as a unit), the routine of the coaching staff and conditioning, gameplans, combinations and the rest.

All this horsehit about individuals "not being able to step up" is the same tired lines pedalled to the media which become less and less credible.

Truth be known:
- In the Premiership Sarries, Saints, Tigers (maybe), Gloucester (plus maybe Quins and Bath) would rumble England easily.
- Top 14: Toulouse, Clermont, Toulon,and (if they can be bothered to turn up) Biarritz would make light work of France
- In the Magners, Munster and Leinster would beat Ireland while Ulster would make a game of it. Cardiff, Scarlets and Ospreys would be on par with Wales and the Edinburgh Frog & Fiddler 3rd XV could take Scotland (not too sure about their regions however).
- Aussie would get hammered by the reds. The reds have some (sort of) resemblant of forwards, Oussie do not.
- Saders would run the Blacks close
- I honestly don't know about South Africa - Without Divvy I suspect they'll get stronger again.

 

[j'nuh]

How about 13 Ospreys beating England?

When you say England, do you mean: Balshaw; Sackey, Tindall, Flood, Strettle (off after 13 minutes for the wonderful Vainikolo); Wilkinson, Gomarsall; Sheridan, Regan, Vickery (capt), Shaw, Borthwick, Haskell, Moody, Narraway.

Also, I seem to remember that Wales including the 13 Ospreys played far better than the Ospreys did that season (they finished 7th...).

Also, England (with adequate coaching and selection) would walk over every team in the Aviva apart from Saracens and possibly Leicester, who they'd still be favourites against.

 

[Teh Mite]

Ah, so you mean that was a weak, nay crap, international team?


ho-ho-ho, I see contradictions and cracks forming in the "test rugby is a step up" debate.

Also, England (with adequate coaching and selection) would walk over every team in the Aviva apart from Saracens and possibly Leicester, who they'd still be favourites against.

And if my Auntie had ******** she'd be my uncle.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

When you say England, do you mean: Balshaw; Sackey, Tindall, Flood, Strettle (off after 13 minutes for the wonderful Vainikolo); Wilkinson, Gomarsall; Sheridan, Regan, Vickery (capt), Shaw, Borthwick, Haskell, Moody, Narraway.

Also, I seem to remember that Wales including the 13 Ospreys played far better than the Ospreys did that season (they finished 7th...).

Also, England (with adequate coaching and selection) would walk over every team in the Aviva apart from Saracens and possibly Leicester, who they'd still be favourites against.

Depends who's in the England side,
I'd back David Seymour on his own vs the RWC 1st XV - hard for them to score if they're getting f**ked at the breakdown and have no ball

 

[RyotoTheDragon]

It's the familiarity of the team, (thus the ability to work as a unit), the routine of the coaching staff and conditioning, gameplans, combinations and the rest.

All this horsehit about individuals "not being able to step up" is the same tired lines pedalled to the media which become less and less credible.

Truth be known:
- In the Premiership Sarries, Saints, Tigers (maybe), Gloucester (plus maybe Quins and Bath) would rumble England easily.
- Top 14: Toulouse, Clermont, Toulon,and (if they can be bothered to turn up) Biarritz would make light work of France
- In the Magners, Munster and Leinster would beat Ireland while Ulster would make a game of it. Cardiff, Scarlets and Ospreys would be on par with Wales and the Edinburgh Frog & Fiddler 3rd XV could take Scotland (not too sure about their regions however).
- Aussie would get hammered by the reds. The reds have some (sort of) resemblant of forwards, Oussie do not.
- Saders would run the Blacks close
- I honestly don't know about South Africa - Without Divvy I suspect they'll get stronger again.

how would that work if they were to play each other? who plays for who? can the crusaders play the all blacks?

because these clubs make up the international side. do you remember when Mitchel basically picked the crusaders for the all blacks?

 

[donmcdazzle]

- Aussie would get hammered by the reds. The reds have some (sort of) resemblant of forwards, Oussie do not.

Nah I don't reckon. The forward packs are pretty similar.
Loosies: Pocock is an improvement over Robinson, Higginbotham is probably better than Elsom so we'll call loosies a wash.
Locks: Simmons isn't better than Sharpe so we'll give that (narrowly) to the Wallabies.
Props: Both sets are rubbish.. even
Hooker: Fainga'a isn't as good as Moore. Wallabies edge.

Backlines for arguments sake..
Fullback: Beale is better than Hynes or Lance. Wallabies
Wingers: O'Conner is better than Davies and Morahan. Wallabies
Centres: Ashley Cooper is better than Fainga'a at 13, Tapuai probably pretty similar to McCabe. We'll call it even.
Genia and Cooper play for both.

On the back of all that, don't get how the Reds are meant to beat the Wallabies, let alone hammer them (if they played in a fantasy world).