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[June Tests 2018: 2nd Test] South Africa vs. England (16/06/2018)

Wales liked to pride themselves on being one of the fittest sides in the world a few years back. Besides some better wins against NH sides, it counted for very little. England don't look like an unfit side, they look like a side lacking aggression and direction.
 
It's not about "marginal" gains, it's about significant gains.

Thing is we're not French. Obviously we want them to peak, but that's fine tuning - they've all been highly trained professional players for years, once any sportsman's at that stage, the gains are by definition marginal. They count, but you're not going to turn a carthorse into a thoroughbred. Jones has spouted stuff about getting them 30% fitter or whatever the number was, but that's just b*llocks headline fodder. You just can't do that with professionals.

Physical is a big part - you can't win unless you're fit enough - but there are much greater gains to be had elsewhere.
 
Thing is we're not French. Obviously we want them to peak, but that's fine tuning - they've all been highly trained professional players for years, once any sportsman's at that stage, the gains are by definition marginal. They count, but you're not going to turn a carthorse into a thoroughbred. Jones has spouted stuff about getting them 30% fitter or whatever the number was, but that's just b*llocks headline fodder. You just can't do that with professionals.

That depends - you're assuming conditioning for the premiership has them at or near their potential already. I wouldn't necessarily accept that's the case.

You can make significant gains if you make the conditioning the priority, rather than winning. That's the theory that Jones may/seems to be using.
 
Feeling weirdly confident with this game - not as in we're going to batter SA or anything, just think we can squeak it.

Someone slap me
 
Feeling weirdly confident with this game - not as in we're going to batter SA or anything, just think we can squeak it.

Someone slap me

I can't see England winning the game. The only stat we'll win is the penalty count.
 
In all seriousness it's very winnable, we've been shite for a year or so but so have they, and we've been good more recently.

Something fundamental needs to change in terms of either discipline, breakdown or defence (or maybe small improvements in all three) but it's not like it would be a massive shocker for England to win this.
 
Hope weve had a week working on defence being the same back line. Im nervous tbh i hope we dont let in stupid tries. Stupid penalties and kicks on the full. Down to the forwards to produce fast ball and us to be agressive and not get disconnected in defence. We need a convincing win to get us gping forward rather than some pf our previous wins where we scraped it and it papered over the cracks.

Screw it England by 8 :) come on England!
 
We only lost last week by 3 points it would stupid to not think we couldn't win this.
 
Because this is not new to the UK nations.
...
CJ Stander

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I'll be supporting England, because I've been there around 9 more times than Brad Shields probably has. That is to say, I've been to England nine times.
 
But it's a bit Hypocritical as England has been the country that has been exploiting this the most. And they started this whole cycle of project players and getting guys who would be eligible because of the residency rule. If we take a position such as inside centre as an example. Before Faz was your first choice, England went through a bunch a of foreigners as they didn't have international quality players for that position that were born in England. Brad Barrit, Manu Tuilagi, Stuart Abbott, Riki Flutey & Ben Te'o comes to mind.

I don't want to get too technical on this matter with regards to where they were born, went to school or where they grew up or played age grade rugby, but as soon as the "stigma-seed" has been planted of a player that has been "poached" it's nearly impossible to change someone's mind about his loyalties and that he's just a mercenary for hire and that the good old traditions of pride for king and country still applies.

All I'm saying is that England is the biggest offender of this nature, and has been for the longest time of all the nations. After they dropped off the pedestal of being the best in the world after the 2003 World Cup, they went on a binge to get the guys to get them back on top and the attitude of winning by all means necessary has created this vicious cycle. Perhaps the administrators should have a change of mind and follow the idea of SARU when selecting players for national duty. Even if it's just for a short while until the residency rule increases. At least by then the heat will be a little bit less.

I agree to a point but then want we try and close things up somewhat like Ireland and NZ systems and have very few foreigners in our systems which leads to the players you are saying should be playing elsewhere don't ever really develop into the talent they have, it really is a no win situation...
 
We only lost last week by 3 points it would stupid to not think we couldn't win this.
That's what I was thinking,
55mins of utter dross but it was still a very tight game.
Maybe if we collapse after about 30 instead of 25 then we'd win
 
Awww no picture to see if the team taught Brad the words ;)
 

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