June Internationals - South Africa vs. Samoa (22/06/2013)

[TRF_stormer2010]

This game for me shows how much we missed Flo against Scotland and Alberts is a monster in a green jersey. Some questions answered but some still remain and Samoa didn't test us with the rush and in defense as Scotland did last week and Wales did in the JWRC; seems like something we struggle to overcome though its great to see our work at the breakdown improve SO drastically.

Samoa I think let themselves down in a big way. Somehow I get the feeling they were the team which underestimated its opponent. You can say that Tuilagi didn't deserve the red and I agree but Samoa has a reputation and a well deserved one at that and one which their collective effort from this match didn't help (particularly the squeeze and rip from So'oiala but also the headstamping on Louw and the kick to Oosthuizen's groin area). Off course the ref is going to be extra critical and those were three red cards missed so on the balance Samoa was VERY lucky to escape harsher punishment. Like Bakkies Botha, once you get a reputation (which doesn't occur from nothing!) you are going to be looked at extra carefully and get harsher punishment more like than not. Samoa needs to concentrate on that and in time they could overturn that perception. They really should because they have the capability to be heavy-hitters in world rugby if you'll excuse the irony.

Spies needs a wake-up call seriously and JdV and our tired old props need one as well. Or maybe just a rest but I think the up-and-commers will overthrough them before the EoYT. But what a game by Steyn! The kicking was only alright and the try well taken but those two huge tackles; one certainl try saving along the sidelines and that kick-chase!!! I see him in a slightly new light LOL.

 

[Jaguares]

Alesana Tuilagi suspended for 2 weeks after a dangerous tackle on Bok captain Jean de Villiers...

 

[TRF_heineken]

This game for me shows how much we missed Flo against Scotland and Alberts is a monster in a green jersey. Some questions answered but some still remain and Samoa didn't test us with the rush and in defense as Scotland did last week and Wales did in the JWRC; seems like something we struggle to overcome though its great to see our work at the breakdown improve SO drastically.

Samoa I think let themselves down in a big way. Somehow I get the feeling they were the team which underestimated its opponent. You can say that Tuilagi didn't deserve the red and I agree but Samoa has a reputation and a well deserved one at that and one which their collective effort from this match didn't help (particularly the squeeze and rip from So'oiala but also the headstamping on Louw and the kick to Oosthuizen's groin area). Off course the ref is going to be extra critical and those were three red cards missed so on the balance Samoa was VERY lucky to escape harsher punishment. Like Bakkies Botha, once you get a reputation (which doesn't occur from nothing!) you are going to be looked at extra carefully and get harsher punishment more like than not. Samoa needs to concentrate on that and in time they could overturn that perception. They really should because they have the capability to be heavy-hitters in world rugby if you'll excuse the irony.

Spies needs a wake-up call seriously and JdV and our tired old props need one as well. Or maybe just a rest but I think the up-and-commers will overthrough them before the EoYT. But what a game by Steyn! The kicking was only alright and the try well taken but those two huge tackles; one certainl try saving along the sidelines and that kick-chase!!! I see him in a slightly new light LOL.

A bit harsh on the props?? Am I the only one who saw them crush the Samoan props at scrum time?

Spies days are numbered at no.8, we all agree on that.

Steyn's overall play was great, and his kicking to goal let him down, how weird??

 

[Sker]

I have to agree, I like this 2013 version of Steyn. Much better than before. Maybe he felt a bit pressurized with all the exciting players in the backline?

 

[Sam Owen]

No, there was a seperate incident, after the red card for Tuilagi. I think it was around the 60th minute. Oosthuizen tackled no. 17, who went to ground and while on his back, kicked upwards into Oosthuizen's groin. SA was awarded a penalty for that but it was on the camera-side of the pitch, not the far side where the Strauss incident happened.

Oh yep, I know the one now. When I reflect back on the game I can understand how some may feel that were dirty players but thats far from the truth despite these episodes during the game. Our guys were just frusterated after we put away Italy and Scotland and built up good confidence and then to get thrashed, it was just embarrasing and frusterating for our players IMO.

A few weeks ago I was playing a game of rugby against another team in a promotion match. We were destorying the team and I was humiliating the opposite prop in the scrums. Well anyway he was talking crap all game and always looking for a fight. He lined my up after I made a run and tried to tackle me. I offloaded the ball but he continued to try and tackle me for about three seconds later. Well eventually I thought "If I'm eventually ganna fall screw landing on my arse after I've offloaded and he's continuing - so I landed with my knees into his chest. Anyway he was angry and from the ground punched me in the nuts. Never have I been so close to just stomping a mans face in in my life - had half the sideline holding me back. So I know exactly how Andriaan feels and I think a referee needs to red card that sort of crap.

LOL, Ive only heard of one complaint from a team mate that his nuts were being grabbed in a game and I guess you expect to come across that in the game at grass roots if you play long enough but at professional level, thats a disgrace.

Baddest thing Ive done is run past this punk whos head was sticking out of the ruck and I kicked him HARD in a way that it made me look like I was just running past. It was well done from me cos 1. I kicked the back of his head so he wouldnt have seen me and it was too hard for him to care about anything else, such as who did it 2. no-one saw it 3. after that he didnt play so well which was a shame because he very well mightve been man of the match but he had to run his mouth and disrupt our ball so...

 

[Maxwell]

SA were far too good for us in this match. The missed tackles for me were the most disappointing. Defence is something we have prided ourselves on in last 6 internationals. Certainly missing Kahn was a huge loss as he is in the top 3 halves in the world. The biggest loss for me was big Joe Tekori who was devastating when he came on at RWC against SA. Yes... what if.

The discipline has been very good this game aside and to have 14 players only for almost 30 mins against a team like SA is suicidal. For some fans to carry on about Samoa's disciplinary reputation is neglected the positive strides our teams has made. SA have had some of the dirtiest players to pull on a rugby jersey but for me its history and I wont let it dampen my admiration I have for the great players it produces.

All in all a great tournament for us to be playing just Tier 1 teams and far more beneficial than the PNC.

 

[Sker]

SA were far too good for us in this match. The missed tackles for me were the most disappointing. Defence is something we have prided ourselves on in last 6 internationals. Certainly missing Kahn was a huge loss as he is in the top 3 halves in the world. The biggest loss for me was big Joe Tekori who was devastating when he came on at RWC against SA. Yes... what if.

The discipline has been very good this game aside and to have 14 players only for almost 30 mins against a team like SA is suicidal. For some fans to carry on about Samoa's disciplinary reputation is neglected the positive strides our teams has made. SA have had some of the dirtiest players to pull on a rugby jersey but for me its history and I wont let it dampen my admiration I have for the great players it produces.

All in all a great tournament for us to be playing just Tier 1 teams and far more beneficial than the PNC.

When we do something, we like to be the best at it. So it's either extremely dirty or not dirty at all. True story.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Now that is just the thing, things do not go go well and you are brought back to earth and then go to play like this, it is a damn shame
Did you honestly think after beating Italy and Scotland you are there with the top 3 teams in world rugby...
I lost the respect I had form the Samoan national team.
From the last last World Cup it has worsened, sadly

 

[TRF_heineken]

Now that is just the thing, things do not go go well and you are brought back to earth and then go to play like this, it is a damn shame
Did you honestly think after beating Italy and Scotland you are there with the top 3 teams in world rugby...
I lost the respect I had form the Samoan national team.
From the last last World Cup it has worsened, sadly

This!

My sentiments exactly. Just because you are now ranked 7th and in tier 2, doesn't mean you will win every game.

SA was their first tier 1 opponent this year. A team they have never beaten, and in SA the scores are big vs Samoa. What they should've done, was to try and keep it close and be more realistic in their approach.

After the world cup game and now this game, I think the tag of bullies/thugs fit them quite appropriately. The history between SA and Samoa seems to always bring out the worse in the Samoans. In 2003, Brian Lima smashed Hougaard, which was a brilliant tackle, but that started the animosity. In 2007 Schalk Burger and Bryan Habana both got tackled late and in the air in the same game, Habana went on to score 4 tries that day. 2011, a lot of off the ball stuff and some inapropriate comments afterwards. And now this match. I wouldn't be surprized if some sort of boycott will be up for discussion unless Samoa get their **** together.

 

[Sam Owen]

Did you honestly think after beating Italy and Scotland you are there with the top 3 teams in world rugby...

No I think you're reading that part of my post out of context. I was trying to make sense of why the Manu was up to mischief.


I don't think our guys ever thought we were in the top 3 teams in the world and I'm sure no-one ever said that. To beat a world class team you have to believe that you can do it first and foremost, our self-belief and the outside hype was high. You cant come out of the changing rooms thinking 'were not up there with these guys', you have to believe especially if you earnt that belief. A Bokke victory was always on the cards but to lose like we did was frustrating for both players and fans.


In retrospect I think our team couldn't thank the Bokkes enough for not only outplaying us but for their hospitality in hosting our players and more importantly giving us the opportunity to play them. I hope the ugly incidents of Rugby that occurred in that game dont become a factor the next time they talk about a Manu vs Bokke test, which I'm sure they won't.

 

[Le_Manu]

Tough game for the Men in Blue. They came up against a better team at the end of the day. But in reflection this tour has been a big step forward for Samoan rugby. They backed up last years Northern Hemisphere tour with some more scalps (two 6N teams). This should not be lost in the midst of the result against SA. They can only grow from here, and I cant wait until the next NH tour. Does anyone know who they will be playing?


Here is a report from the Manu's manager.

Manuia


A Report from the Manager of the Manu Samoa, Namulauulu Sami Leota, in Johannesburg.

______________________________________

Talofa Samoa and all the Manu Samoa Supporters,

As is always the case, the saddest part for any Manu Samoa Campaign is when you farewell the boys to return back to their homes scattered around the globe. It's been a long five weeks together and everyone is looking forward to getting back home to spend time with families and loved ones.

The first delegation left this morning at 10am for NZ and Samoa, the second delegation has just left for the UK and France and Australia, and the last one will be leaving the hotel tonight at 10pm for Japan and for three of us who will be heading on to the Sevens Rugby World Cup in Moscow.

We were disappointed as a team, not to achieve the outcomes we all desired in the South African game, and especially for the people of Samoa and supporters in Samoa and around the world who are behind this team.

BUT as Captain Paul Williams stated at the after match function last night, "a lot of lessons learnt from this game and we will build the team on from this experience".

Head Coach Stephen Betham reminded the boys after the game that "today will build tomorrow", and we will take with us what we have learnt on this tour to reflect on it and never lose focus of bigger things ahead of us that we can achieve together as a team, especially as the team is developing towards the 2015 RWC.

On the tour outcome as whole, we played 3 tests against 3 tier one nations, and won two (including the historical win against Scotland for the first time) and lost one yesterday to South Africa.

Its has always been a challenge for the Manu Samoa to put together the team literally within a week before embarking onto a major test match.. This campaign is no different and we will take with us the positives learnt on this tour and start planning for the November window when we come back together.

Early this morning, we were summoned for two (2) Hearings for Alesana Tuilagi's Red Card and for James Sooialo's Citation from the incident that involved the SA hooker. The players were represented by myself, Stephen Betham and Daryl Suasua.

After roughly 3 hours of hearings, submissions and deliberations, James Sooialo was cleared from the Judiciary of any offence and walked away free of any sanctions. Alesana Tuilagi's tackle on the SA captain was considered dangerous on the lowest scale and was given a two (2) weeks suspension.

May I take this opportunity to say Faafetai Tele Lava Samoa mo lau tapuaiga, I thank you for all the messages sent through and your prayers and words of encouragement.

May I also acknowledge all our sponsors especially Digicel, the Government of Samoa and TAB.

I also wish to acknowledge the tremendous support given by the Hon. Prime Minister as Chairman of the SRU, the Board and the SRU Office throughout this campaign.

Faamalulu atu pau o se mea ua oo i ai le taumafaiga a au alo fanau..ia ae e toe oso foi le la ma e fai aso foi le Atua.

May the Good Lord Bless you all.

Namulauulu Sami Leota
Team Manager
Johannesburg South Africa

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

LOL, no thanks for the host nation.. looks like Samoa is shaping up to join Aus, NZ and England as 'grudge matches' for the Springbokke; we are developing a bit of history (baggage?) together.

 

[yarmolinsky]

looks like Samoa is shaping up to join Aus, NZ and England as 'grudge matches' for the Springbokke

Seems to be a right choise to abandon Pacific Nations cup)) I wonder - is it for this season only or we are not going to see Samoa in PNC again?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Seems to be a right choise to abandon Pacific Nations cup)) I wonder - is it for this season only or we are not going to see Samoa in PNC again?

I don't know. From an SA perspective I hope we play Samoa as little as possible though we always seem to draw them at the RWC; we don't have anything to gain from playing them and can only suffer a big drop in rankings if we lose while their constant off the ball antics significantly increase the chance for totally unnecassary injury.

 

[yarmolinsky]

constant off the ball antics

It looks like PNC participants are no match for them anymore, so IRB really has a headache of adding them to some appropriate crowd. We'll see.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I think Samoa will continue to struggle against SA and England and NZ; NZ simply because of their class but SA and England because those two teams play a very similar hard up-front game and can match Samoa ITO physicality while edging them for structure (both on and off the field). IMO SA > England > Samoa would be very consistent results for the foreseeable future (though England seem to be ahead of SA ITO game plan development) when these particular teams come up against each other simply because of the little variance in their approach to rugby.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

It looks like PNC participants are no match for them anymore, so IRB really has a headache of adding them to some appropriate crowd. We'll see.

Sure they have outgrown the NPC and it makes sense to have them in the Rugby championship on merit alone as they should be good competition but other factors are big considerations for that to happen and of course it all boils down to money;

Would Samoa be able to consistently field their best seeing as they are so dispersed? Argentina seem to have shown this is possible.
Where would Samoa play home matches? Is there feasible locations in Samoa or is it feasable for Samoa to stage it in Auckland fr example? How fair is this if fairness even comes into the equation?
What would this mean for the amount of games played; a home and away match against each opponent would mean 2 more games and weeks while the calender is already SO full while a single game against each opponent means less games and less money which will not be considered sadly. The left field option is to include both Samoa AND Japan to have 6 teams so that a game each doesn't have such a huge effect or a kind of 2 conference systems becomes possible. Japan would add economic sense (and would be good for them to develop their game looking forward to them hosting the world cup in 2019) while Samoa makes sense ITO competitiveness.

Something like a two pronged approach where you have SA vs Argentina, Aus vs Japan and NZ vs Samoa home and away and then the overall winners of each 'mini-pool' play each other home and away to determine 1-3 and 4-6 for the runners-up. That way each team still plays 6 matches and it is mostly strength vs strength. A bit weird though...

 

[psychic duck]

Sure they have outgrown the PNC and it makes sense to have them in the Rugby championship on merit alone as they should be good competition but other factors are big considerations for that to happen and of course it all boils down to money;

Would Samoa be able to consistently field their best seeing as they are so dispersed? Argentina seem to have shown this is possible.
Where would Samoa play home matches? Is there feasible locations in Samoa or is it feasable for Samoa to stage it in Auckland fr example? How fair is this if fairness even comes into the equation?
What would this mean for the amount of games played; a home and away match against each opponent would mean 2 more games and weeks while the calender is already SO full while a single game against each opponent means less games and less money which will not be considered sadly. The left field option is to include both Samoa AND Japan to have 6 teams so that a game each doesn't have such a huge effect or a kind of 2 conference systems becomes possible. Japan would add economic sense (and would be good for them to develop their game looking forward to them hosting the world cup in 2019) while Samoa makes sense ITO competitiveness.

Something like a two pronged approach where you have SA vs Argentina, Aus vs Japan and NZ vs Samoa home and away and then the overall winners of each 'mini-pool' play each other home and away to determine 1-3 and 4-6 for the runners-up. That way each team still plays 6 matches and it is mostly strength vs strength. A bit weird though...

You say that, but their results there certainly doesn't suggest dominance.

Last year their full strength side only beat Japan by 1 point. And Japan missed a last minute conversion to win it. Nearly all Pacific Nation derby matches with Tonga and Fiji are normally close as well

Also I think it would be more complicated for Samoa to get a full strength team to the RC during the September/October international window. They had a little trouble this June in the international window which doesn't clash with the club season (Fotuali'i, George Pisi, Tekori all pulling out). Samoa isn't as rich a union as Argentina and don't pay the players wages as high for international, so I bet there would be a fair few who would rather stay in Europe to protect club contracts (several Argentines have had to find new clubs thanks to the RC).

As for Japan, I reckon they would just need to get to the standard of beating Scotland, Italy and challenging the likes of Argentina, Ireland. Huge potential market there, hence why the All Blacks are travelling there to try and sell their brand this November.

 

[profitius]

Its too early to judge Samoa. They're getting regular games now against tier 1 opposition so we'll see how they go in the next few years. It might be that they have been underestimated but they won't be any more. That means the opposition will step up a level against them. No doubt though that they should be included in the rugby championship. They won't though because they don't bring enough money to the table.

As for Japan, I reckon they would just need to get to the standard of beating Scotland, Italy and challenging the likes of Argentina, Ireland. Huge potential market there, hence why the All Blacks are travelling there to try and sell their brand this November.

Bad idea to get the ABs there. They could put 70pts on Japan and demoralise the fans again. A tired Australia would have been better opponents.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I disagree that Samoa aren't good enough to make the step up to the RC; do they really have to beat the AB's and Springboks BEFORE they get the chance? That's something Argentina hasn't done either prior to being included and I suppose no-one will argue with me when I say Arg made a decent fist of it first time round and are a deserved inclusion. The reason to include Samoa would be that they have shown that they COULD make the step up if given the opportunity to FURTHER DEVELOP not so much that they are- as is- ready to regularly push these two top teams.