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Italy’s future in 6N

Everyone sees things differently but I'd still rather a 6 team comp so that every nation is involved during every round. I'd rather thump Italy than Wales not play at all that weekend... still I agree that as it stands it is far from ideal.

I'd rather have Japan in the competition. Although it would detract from the European aspect of 6 nations. Of course SA has been offered as an alternative option. But I think they belong in the RC.

Just don't see the point of Italy being in the six nations anymore, as year after year they are just favourites for the wooden spoon. Must be pretty dispiriting for their team.
 
I'd rather have Japan in the competition. Although it would detract from the European aspect of 6 nations. Of course SA has been offered as an alternative option. But I think they belong in the RC.

Just don't see the point of Italy being in the six nations anymore, as year after year they are just favourites for the wooden spoon. Must be pretty dispiriting for their team.
Just remember those time differences bring their own issues, Id like to keep SA and add Japan but Japan works better for watching games
 
I know people are suggesting alternative nations but it should always be exclusively European as far as I'm concerned. If it ain't Italy then there has to be a European pathway.

RWC's are great because that's when the hemispheres collide competitively... for the years in between competition should be within your respective hemisphere imho.
 
The issue is that Italy are way better than Georgia,
Don't agree with bringing Japan or South Africa in the 6N - but then I don't really want it dropped to 5 sides
Not sure what to do tbh, but a record of 12-1-95 (so far), and a points difference of -2028 needs to be addressed

Playoffs probably the best way of doing it, but I can't see Italy losing playoff games against the REC winners, whoever they are
 
The problem isn't Italy as such, the problem is there aren't enough competitive rugby playing nations in the world. Rugby has done a **** poor job of promoting itself worldwide but even just for us, rugby outside the UK and France is virtually non-existent. American football has a larger presence and viewership in many European countries than rugby does.

Italy are whipping boys and that isn't changing. The problem is everyone else who can replace them would also be whipping boys. Japan looks like a good future prospect for the game with a large population, plenty of wealthy and a league that is drawing a lot of star players. The Italian league does not do this. WR should really get it's act together and see how American football promotes itself around the world and aim to emulate that. Not the corporatism but the proper global reach and exposure. At some point rugby has to accept it cannot hope to grow whilst it stays an old boys club. One big area of weakness is the lack of a good rugby video game. Look at all major sports in the world, they all have video games to get people interested. I've never watched basketball, ice hockey, tennis etc but I've played games with all of those. I watch rugby all the time yet never played a game for it.

Europe should be an ideal market to grow the sport as there isn't really an equivalent sport it would be competing with. They've just got to get their act together and stop living in the past.

So much as I feel Italy are an embarrassment to the tournament, I don't see any team that can replace them that could do a better job, except maybe Japan but they are right on the other side of the world... Having said that, I do feel some sort of playoff is required. Even if Italy win it 9/10 times, they should still have to prove they are better than the alternatives (basically Georgia).
 
I think dropping Italy is the last thing rugby needs. There's few enough nations in top competition already.

I think Italy have actually improved at least in some aspects. They don't have the world class scrum they once had which effects their chances of winning key penalties. But their overall handling and intent have definitely improved. They've scored some decent tries this year that they never would have scored before. Although while I think they have improved in this area I think the other teams have improved a lot more in this area. The general handling across the full team in the NH is leagues apart from where it was even 10 years ago.

As noted by TAB the Italians are young enough and their last few 20s teams have been a lot more competitive. They haven't finished bottom of any of the last three u20s six nations. For years we were saying they had no halfbacks but with Varney and Garbisi they do look like they're onto something. They also don't have great depth so the loss of the likes of Polledri hurts them a lot more.

They're definitely not in a great situation right now but I do think there's potential for something that's at least better than current results within the next 2-3 years.
 
I wouldn't mind them losing 30 odd games in a row so much if the games were tighter - the margins are consistently increasing. That's the issue that needs to be addressed.
This. Scotland have had some poor runs over the last couple of decades, but even when they had lots of defeats, some of them were close. Italy, on the other hand, seem to get thrashed by a 30-40 point margin every game. They've never even managed a losing bonus point since they were introduced 5 tournaments ago.
 
Aren't the SA teams joining the Pro 14 soon? Is that a step towards SA joining the 6N? It would feel a bit odd if they played their club rugby against Europe and their international rugby against the southern hemisphere teams.
 
@Not Eddie Jones They are but as far as I'm concerned SA as a national side have to stay in The Rugby Championship. As a northern hemisphere rugby fan I like the 'mystique' (no doubt the mystique has somewhat diminished) of the big 3 Southern Hemisphere teams.

I'd imagine that World Rugby are hoping that Spain could be an option eventually... decent economy, nice destination, large potential audience. I'd imagine that if it had of been Spain knocking on the door this last decade and not Georgia, that we may well have seen some form of promotion/relegation by now.
 
I'm sure the 6 nations would like to have SA joining but it would have to be from NZ/Aus' cold dead hands. :p
 
I wouldn't be opposed to Italy being replaced with a better team but only one that I'd do an away trip to without having to take at least a week off work to make it worth it. Ideally Spain, Belgium or Germany would make rapid improvements but the USA, based in Boston, Chicago or NY would be sweet too.
 
6N is a European competition.
Italy are the 6th best nation in Europe, by a long way; and are a long way better than teams having a fallow weekend.

I'd be fine with a play-off between the winer of ENC1 and the 6N wooden-spooner every other year.

I wouldn't want to see anyone from outside of Europe join in - but if we have to, then it has to be someone from the Northern Hemisphere.

Of course, if CVC get their way, we'd go to an 8N format, with Italy dropping out, and NZ, Aus and SA joining. RWC, Argentina, Italy, or the good of the game can all go hang.
 
Few years back looked as though they were getting somewhere. Beat Ireland and France at home and it pretty much went south after that.
 
They haven't been helped with injuries/unavailability to key players. Pollederi who is just as good as any back row player in the tournament, Minozzi, (ruled himself out) and Campanaro looked to have star quality till suffering way too many injuries.
 
Italy are better than they used to be.
This Italy would absolutely wipe the floor with 2010 Italy.

Trouble for them is, the other teams have all improved more. Scotland are no longer a fellow basket-case, nor are Wales or Ireland remotely the same "quality" they were going back to the early 00s when Italy joined the championship.

It used to be England v France at the top, then a cripple fight for the wooden spoon, with one of Wales, Ireland or Scotland getting a year where the stars aligned for them.
Since then Ireland had a golden generation (and are currently transitioning from a higher base), Wales had a golden coach (and are currently transitioning from a higher base), France fell apart (and are currently rediscovering how to France).

Also remembering that Italy got royalty screwed over on joining the Pro14, and having to put up Millions for the privilege, which they really REALLY needed to invest in players / academies / facilities.
 
This. Scotland have had some poor runs over the last couple of decades, but even when they had lots of defeats, some of them were close. Italy, on the other hand, seem to get thrashed by a 30-40 point margin every game. They've never even managed a losing bonus point since they were introduced 5 tournaments ago.
Not true - in 2018 they got a losing bonus point at home against Scotland. (They lost at the last minute due to a dubiously-awarded penalty 27-29). But your overall point is correct. The main issue is that there is no one else really in Europe to replace them - Georgia and Romania are certainly no better and the rest are (believe it or not) substantially worse. In fact, Italy beat Russia 85-15 in a pre-World Cup warm-up match in 2019!
 
Right now, Italy are better than Georgia - but you have to wonder what progress Georgia would've made in the 6N if given the same opportunity.

For what it's worth I don't think Japan are the answer. One of the reasons the 6N is so good is the fans, the travel opportunities, the cross border nature of it etc.
 
We should replace Italy with a club side because at least the games would be competitive.
 
Simple solution - drop Italy and go back to the old 5 nations. Yes it would make it more disjointed but I'd rather that than have to watch Italy get 5 inevitable pastings year after year. Having one team which is so uncompetitive does the competition no favours. When was the last time that an Italy home game was full, obviously going back before Covid!.
 
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