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MunsterMan
Guest
No he, he is an All Black so will never be able to play for Wales. I was using him as an example of the type of 13 Wales need to compliment Roberts, where as Shanklin already compliments Henson well, but Henson is awol.
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Bullitt
Guest
Isn't Jonathan Davies a youngster at Scarlets who's supposed to be promising?
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dullonien
Guest
Nah, King aint international quality, never was! Great going forward, but hopeless in defense. He's also got a NZ cap (against Wales, ironically), so will never qualify for Wales.
The main problem with Jamie Roberts is that he's just not seeing enough of the ball, for the Blues or Wales. How many times did he see the ball yesterday for the Blues? I doubt he touched it more than 10 times, and most of those were a mile off the gameline! Stephen Jones atleast plays flat, which should draw Roberts into the game, but Roberts seemed to be the decoy 90% of the time in the AI's. Not sure why this is, but it was obviously the gameplan set out by Gtaland.
I agree that he needs a class player alongside him, and Shanklin isn't that man. But I don't think it was O'Driscoll alone who made Roberts look good. They worked well with each other, but Roberts was still the one breaking so many tackles putting O'Driscoll into space (not to say O'Driscoll didn't put Roberts into space aswell). He certainly needs to improve his all round game, and incorporate good distibution to his physical presense, but hopefully that will come with more time in what is still a relitively new position to him.
Hook is our best choice alongside him at at 13 imo, as he offers the running flair to complement Jamie. It might not work, but we won't know untill it's tried. Gav back at 12 would be nice, but there's no point going on about it at the moment. Agree with MunsterMan, that all our decent centres are naturally 12's (apart from Shanklin, but he's too similar to Roberts), not 13's. Maybe Gomer-Davies or Riley will continue to improve at the Dragons. Does Roberts have to play 12?
@Dunc. Oops, never realised I was spelling Byrne incorrectly. Will try to remember next time. btw it's Eifion not Effiron
<strike>Mite</strike> Bullit, Jonathan Davies will become a very good player imo. He was superb against Leinster in the first HC game, outplaying O'Driscoll. He is still very raw though, he makes some mistakes (simple knock ons etc.) and also takes the wrong decisions far too often. We will probably see him in some games this 6 nations, but he needs another year or two untill he becomes a regular starter.
The main problem with Jamie Roberts is that he's just not seeing enough of the ball, for the Blues or Wales. How many times did he see the ball yesterday for the Blues? I doubt he touched it more than 10 times, and most of those were a mile off the gameline! Stephen Jones atleast plays flat, which should draw Roberts into the game, but Roberts seemed to be the decoy 90% of the time in the AI's. Not sure why this is, but it was obviously the gameplan set out by Gtaland.
I agree that he needs a class player alongside him, and Shanklin isn't that man. But I don't think it was O'Driscoll alone who made Roberts look good. They worked well with each other, but Roberts was still the one breaking so many tackles putting O'Driscoll into space (not to say O'Driscoll didn't put Roberts into space aswell). He certainly needs to improve his all round game, and incorporate good distibution to his physical presense, but hopefully that will come with more time in what is still a relitively new position to him.
Hook is our best choice alongside him at at 13 imo, as he offers the running flair to complement Jamie. It might not work, but we won't know untill it's tried. Gav back at 12 would be nice, but there's no point going on about it at the moment. Agree with MunsterMan, that all our decent centres are naturally 12's (apart from Shanklin, but he's too similar to Roberts), not 13's. Maybe Gomer-Davies or Riley will continue to improve at the Dragons. Does Roberts have to play 12?
@Dunc. Oops, never realised I was spelling Byrne incorrectly. Will try to remember next time. btw it's Eifion not Effiron
<strike>Mite</strike> Bullit, Jonathan Davies will become a very good player imo. He was superb against Leinster in the first HC game, outplaying O'Driscoll. He is still very raw though, he makes some mistakes (simple knock ons etc.) and also takes the wrong decisions far too often. We will probably see him in some games this 6 nations, but he needs another year or two untill he becomes a regular starter.
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Ozzay
Guest
well the roberts shanklin/roberts davies combo has failed. May aswell give Hook a go there
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dullonien
Guest
I don't think the Roberts/Davies combo has failed, as they only had just over a game together. Davies was a bit shaky on his debut, and only had a short time in the centre before being shipped onto the wing in his second test. That combo still has great potential imo, although it is lacking in distibution. Atleast both players don't play the same game (unlike the Roberts/Shanks combo), with Roberts running at weak shoulders, and Davies preferring the outside break. I'm not sure it offers the creativity Wales need though.
It's the biggest dilema Gatland has to figure out in time for the England game. He either needs to bring in someone different (Hook), or change the gameplan to get the wings and fullback running lines off two sraight running centres who are bound to break some tackles. Hook playing at fullback certainly didn't help matters in the AI's, as he wasn't hitting the line at pace on an angle, instead he was just joining the line and running like he does from 10, across field. This offered no attacking threat against the big teams, and just landed him and Wales in trouble most of the time. Byrne (almost spelled that wrong again) will really help matters in the 6nations, and I hope Hook doesn't play 15 again.
It's the biggest dilema Gatland has to figure out in time for the England game. He either needs to bring in someone different (Hook), or change the gameplan to get the wings and fullback running lines off two sraight running centres who are bound to break some tackles. Hook playing at fullback certainly didn't help matters in the AI's, as he wasn't hitting the line at pace on an angle, instead he was just joining the line and running like he does from 10, across field. This offered no attacking threat against the big teams, and just landed him and Wales in trouble most of the time. Byrne (almost spelled that wrong again) will really help matters in the 6nations, and I hope Hook doesn't play 15 again.
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Ozzay
Guest
Wales must beat England anyway. We were poor all through 2009 and scoring tries was a problem! Wales like to run around people not smash into them, i know these days that gotta be done but we need to mix it. Thats why everyone fears us.
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DuncTheDoodle
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jan 10 2010, 08:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
GASP!
Aled Brew is the form wing in Wales, and should be starting for Wales. Sam Warburton is the form back-rower, and should be starting for Wales. Dan Biggar is the form Fly-Half in Wales, but shouldn't be starting because it's such a pivitol position, and we need somebody who makes less mistakes, (Stephen Jones). Jonathan Davies is actually playnig better than Jamie Roberts at the moment, although how much of that is down to the Blues I don't know. Is Hook/Davies the way to go? I think Davies will be a better 13 than a 12, if I'm honest, as at the moment he makes too many wrong decisions to be in, as I called it, such a pivitoal position.
Actually, Gareth Thomas is playing well and said he'd never say no to playing for Wales. He's expereinced, too. (More so than anyone else in Welsh history) Could he be the suprise inclusion in this year's squad?
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/s...91466-25567745/
GASP!
Aled Brew is the form wing in Wales, and should be starting for Wales. Sam Warburton is the form back-rower, and should be starting for Wales. Dan Biggar is the form Fly-Half in Wales, but shouldn't be starting because it's such a pivitol position, and we need somebody who makes less mistakes, (Stephen Jones). Jonathan Davies is actually playnig better than Jamie Roberts at the moment, although how much of that is down to the Blues I don't know. Is Hook/Davies the way to go? I think Davies will be a better 13 than a 12, if I'm honest, as at the moment he makes too many wrong decisions to be in, as I called it, such a pivitoal position.
Actually, Gareth Thomas is playing well and said he'd never say no to playing for Wales. He's expereinced, too. (More so than anyone else in Welsh history) Could he be the suprise inclusion in this year's squad?
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Bullitt
Guest
Suppose I'll have my attempt at the team then (What I'd like, not what I think we'll see).
1. Cole
2. Hartley
3. Flatman
4. Lawes
5. Shaw ©
6. Croft
7. Erm... Moody?
8. Easter
9. Care
10. Flood
11. Monye
12. Allen
13. Hipkiss
14. Ashton
15. Armitage
16. Thompson
17. Sheridan
18. Kennedy
19. Haskwit
20. Hodgson
21. Geraghty
22. Foden
1. Cole
2. Hartley
3. Flatman
4. Lawes
5. Shaw ©
6. Croft
7. Erm... Moody?
8. Easter
9. Care
10. Flood
11. Monye
12. Allen
13. Hipkiss
14. Ashton
15. Armitage
16. Thompson
17. Sheridan
18. Kennedy
19. Haskwit
20. Hodgson
21. Geraghty
22. Foden
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dullonien
Guest
I personally think that's a team with allot of potential Mite, if a bit inexperienced. Is there really a point having Shaw as Captain though? Yes he's experienced, but he's gonna struggle to get to the world cup, and imo a captain should be a player there for the long haul, not a stop gap. Croft could be a good choice, as he's bound to be in the England team for years to come and is already an experienced Lion's player. The likes of Ryan Jones has shown that a Captain doesn't have to be a super experienced 30something year old with 60 caps. Having said all that though, if there is no-one else with true leadership qualities at the moment, then I suppose Shaw is the best option.
One things for certain, those players you've named need to be integrated into the England team. It's just a question of wheather to do it one lump as you've suggested, or do it in a more gradual way like Ireland have done over the years. I doubt that team would have a very successful short term (6 nations etc.), but would grow into a top class side. Does Johnson have the backing to do that? With fans and the media already on his back, does he dare risk a poor 6 nations for the long term goal of the world cup, or does he think about the short-term and his own ass?
One things for certain, those players you've named need to be integrated into the England team. It's just a question of wheather to do it one lump as you've suggested, or do it in a more gradual way like Ireland have done over the years. I doubt that team would have a very successful short term (6 nations etc.), but would grow into a top class side. Does Johnson have the backing to do that? With fans and the media already on his back, does he dare risk a poor 6 nations for the long term goal of the world cup, or does he think about the short-term and his own ass?
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Bullitt
Guest
There's an obsession in England with saying "he's young, he's got plenty of time to go" when a player is 24/25. No he hasn't. He should be at his peak at that age as a back or nigh-on there if he's a forward. If the likes of Allen, Flood, Geraghty, Foden, Ashton, Hartley, Kennedy, Croft and Care aren't played now, they'll never be good enough and we'll suffer another generation of players who are too old and too past the game to keep up.
I'd put them in as one big lump and get a bunch of talented youngsters with between 10 and 20 caps to their names by the world cup. f*** the Wilkinsons & Mears, yesterdays players "giving stability" when in fact they offer nothing. Keep the old heads in the pack to be in the squad, leaders like Shaw and Wally, to guide the youngsters on and make the rest LEARN what to do. There's experience in the squad and management AND they're pro-rugby players FFS; They know what to do when playing a rugby match -It's their day-to-day job! The difference in intensity between club and provincial rugby isn't nearly as wide as you'd be made believe, they'll struggle to begin with, but in time they'd come good.
I'd put them in as one big lump and get a bunch of talented youngsters with between 10 and 20 caps to their names by the world cup. f*** the Wilkinsons & Mears, yesterdays players "giving stability" when in fact they offer nothing. Keep the old heads in the pack to be in the squad, leaders like Shaw and Wally, to guide the youngsters on and make the rest LEARN what to do. There's experience in the squad and management AND they're pro-rugby players FFS; They know what to do when playing a rugby match -It's their day-to-day job! The difference in intensity between club and provincial rugby isn't nearly as wide as you'd be made believe, they'll struggle to begin with, but in time they'd come good.
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dullonien
Guest
Not disputing that they're old enough Mite. The problem is that they haven't really had a huge amount of games aat international level, therefore lack experience (not age). Lawes is a prime example. If he were given the game time he deserved in the AI's, he'd now have a nice amount of international rugby under his belt, and def ready to be no.1 choice for the 6nations.
I'd tend to agree with you though, if England want to build a team to challenge in the world cup, these players have to be introduced now. It's just a pitty it's got to this stage and lessons weren't learned from what happened betweed 2003 and 2007.
I'd tend to agree with you though, if England want to build a team to challenge in the world cup, these players have to be introduced now. It's just a pitty it's got to this stage and lessons weren't learned from what happened betweed 2003 and 2007.
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Charles
Guest
The most probable French squad.
<strike>Barcella</strike> Domingo Marconnet
Servat Szar Guirado
Mas Ducalcon
Chabal Nallet Millo-Chluski Papé
Dusautoir Hari Oudraogo Bonnaire Picamoles
Parra <strike>Dupuy</strike> Michalak
Trinh Duc ?
<strike>Mermoz</strike> <strike>Traille</strike> Jauzion Estebanez Basta David Marty
Clerc Fall Malzieu
Poitrenaud Porical
I'd have Donguy instead of Clerc and Medard instead of Porical. Other than that, doesn't look so bad.
<strike>Barcella</strike> Domingo Marconnet
Servat Szar Guirado
Mas Ducalcon
Chabal Nallet Millo-Chluski Papé
Dusautoir Hari Oudraogo Bonnaire Picamoles
Parra <strike>Dupuy</strike> Michalak
Trinh Duc ?
<strike>Mermoz</strike> <strike>Traille</strike> Jauzion Estebanez Basta David Marty
Clerc Fall Malzieu
Poitrenaud Porical
I'd have Donguy instead of Clerc and Medard instead of Porical. Other than that, doesn't look so bad.
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gingergenius
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charles @ Jan 13 2010, 02:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I know I haven't watched any top 14 this season, but really? I thought Clerc was a class act.
I know I haven't watched any top 14 this season, but really? I thought Clerc was a class act.
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Charles
Guest
Yeah, he was a class act, but since hi sinjury he hasn't been the same. Still a very good player, but not as slick as he used to be. You very rarely see him step now, and he's lost a bit of pace. Good thing we have all these new guys showing up: Andreu (the french Shane Williams), Fall, Planté, Malzieu...
I'd like to see Yann David play on the wing once as well.
I'd like to see Yann David play on the wing once as well.
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DonBilly
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charles @ Jan 13 2010, 05:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I agree Vincent Clerc has not returned to the level he used to be before his big injury.
Regarding David I don't think is agile enough to excel at the wing.
I agree Vincent Clerc has not returned to the level he used to be before his big injury.
Regarding David I don't think is agile enough to excel at the wing.
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Charles
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DonBilly @ Jan 13 2010, 06:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I agree Vincent Clerc has not returned to the level he used to be before his big injury.
Regarding David I don't think is agile enough to excel at the wing.
[/b][/quote]
I don't know about David. He's fast, got a good step and fend on him...Maybe a bit suspect in defense. Anyway, this is probably not gonna happen unless our 3 wingers are injured but...
I agree Vincent Clerc has not returned to the level he used to be before his big injury.
Regarding David I don't think is agile enough to excel at the wing.
[/b][/quote]
I don't know about David. He's fast, got a good step and fend on him...Maybe a bit suspect in defense. Anyway, this is probably not gonna happen unless our 3 wingers are injured but...
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gingergenius
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charles @ Jan 13 2010, 04:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Yep, from the highlights i've seen Andreu looks really good. Fall's finished some good tries off too. Starting back 3 of Andreu-Heymans-Fall would be high risk & high excitement.
Yep, from the highlights i've seen Andreu looks really good. Fall's finished some good tries off too. Starting back 3 of Andreu-Heymans-Fall would be high risk & high excitement.
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Charles
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Jan 13 2010, 11:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Yep, from the highlights i've seen Andreu looks really good. Fall's finished some good tries off too. Starting back 3 of Andreu-Heymans-Fall would be high risk & high excitement.
[/b][/quote]
I think unfortunately it's over for Heymans. At fullback there's Porical, Medard, Floch ...What a great player though... Absolute class. Good thing his last try was absolutely brilliant. I also remeber when he literally created almost all the french tries of the 6N 2008. The golden boots period, him and Clerc where on fire. He also scored some crazy crazy tries in the T14 and HCup. It's a shame that he's been a bit underrated through the years.
Yep, from the highlights i've seen Andreu looks really good. Fall's finished some good tries off too. Starting back 3 of Andreu-Heymans-Fall would be high risk & high excitement.
[/b][/quote]
I think unfortunately it's over for Heymans. At fullback there's Porical, Medard, Floch ...What a great player though... Absolute class. Good thing his last try was absolutely brilliant. I also remeber when he literally created almost all the french tries of the 6N 2008. The golden boots period, him and Clerc where on fire. He also scored some crazy crazy tries in the T14 and HCup. It's a shame that he's been a bit underrated through the years.
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gingergenius
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charles @ Jan 13 2010, 11:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Yep, from the highlights i've seen Andreu looks really good. Fall's finished some good tries off too. Starting back 3 of Andreu-Heymans-Fall would be high risk & high excitement.
[/b][/quote]
I think unfortunately it's over for Heymans. At fullback there's Porical, Medard, Floch ...What a great player though... Absolute class. Good thing his last try was absolutely brilliant. I also remeber when he literally created almost all the french tries of the 6N 2008. The golden boots period, him and Clerc where on fire. He also scored some crazy crazy tries in the T14 and HCup. It's a shame that he's been a bit underrated through the years.
[/b][/quote]
What a wonderful player. Porical looks like a nice footballer too.
35 mins till England squad is announced...
Yep, from the highlights i've seen Andreu looks really good. Fall's finished some good tries off too. Starting back 3 of Andreu-Heymans-Fall would be high risk & high excitement.
[/b][/quote]
I think unfortunately it's over for Heymans. At fullback there's Porical, Medard, Floch ...What a great player though... Absolute class. Good thing his last try was absolutely brilliant. I also remeber when he literally created almost all the french tries of the 6N 2008. The golden boots period, him and Clerc where on fire. He also scored some crazy crazy tries in the T14 and HCup. It's a shame that he's been a bit underrated through the years.
[/b][/quote]
What a wonderful player. Porical looks like a nice footballer too.
35 mins till England squad is announced...
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cyRil
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charles @ Jan 13 2010, 05:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I agree Vincent Clerc has not returned to the level he used to be before his big injury.
Regarding David I don't think is agile enough to excel at the wing.
[/b][/quote]
I don't know about David. He's fast, got a good step and fend on him...Maybe a bit suspect in defense. Anyway, this is probably not gonna happen unless our 3 wingers are injured but...
[/b][/quote]
Reckon David-Mermoz will be the centre partnership for the future?
I agree Vincent Clerc has not returned to the level he used to be before his big injury.
Regarding David I don't think is agile enough to excel at the wing.
[/b][/quote]
I don't know about David. He's fast, got a good step and fend on him...Maybe a bit suspect in defense. Anyway, this is probably not gonna happen unless our 3 wingers are injured but...
[/b][/quote]
Reckon David-Mermoz will be the centre partnership for the future?
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