Irish accused of aiding All Black defections

[munstermuffin]

Actually Merthens was mentioned alot in '95 World Cup Final as being born in South Africa.
Mils I wouldn't consider black and is Samoa.
Isaia Toeava is another.
Joe Rokocoko is Fiji and that isnt racist he lived there until he was 6 or 7 I know but was born in Fiji.

Just because it's brought up it isn't racism

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Boys some need to stop throwing the racism card round willy nilly, no one here has made it out to be racist.

 

[lucky number 7]

Boys some need to stop throwing the racism card round willy nilly, no one here has made it out to be racist.

God I hate white people .....

 

[gingergenius]

FlukeArtist's being a wee bit agressive, but the general point he's making is unfortunately true. You look at England - it's the Hapes, Vainikolos and Fluteys who get all the attention and not the Catts, Stevens and Hartleys. And very little is said about Mehrtens, Pocock etc. compared to what is said about the All Blacks and their so-called poaching of Islanders (which in the most part seems to be no different to England picking black or Asian players for our own teams, guys who've been born and brought up here...).

I wouldn't go so far as to call it racism, merely ignorant stereotyping. And whether Muliaina & Toeava are 'black' or not (a term with a plethora of meanings anyway), they are still visibly different to a white guy in a far more obvious way than, say, Adam Thompson and Richie McCaw look different from one another.

Anyway this is all off topic because people on this board really ought to have got their heads out of the sand and appreciated by now that it's not just England and France that have experienced heavy immigration in the past 50 odd years. The argument here stems from the NZRFU feeling let down by their Irish counterparts (rightly or wrongly); it's not an attack on Irish rugby in general, since I think we can all accept that it is France (salary cap 2x that of the Prem) that are at the forefront of new 'globalised' rugby.

 

[FlukeArtist]

Thank you Gingergenius.

@TRF_Cymro:
Unfortunately, whilst there might not be an intended racist undercurrent to a post on NZ polynesian players, that fact remains, it is ALWAYS the players of Polynesian descent that are supposedly not "real NZers". That seems racist to me- intended or not.

Also, I won't apologise for any "aggression" (I call it passion) regarding this topic.
As someone who grew up, and lives in Auckland, I am sick to death of hearing idiots who know nothing about NZ or its demographics trying to tell me who are and aren't really NZers.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Just because Samoan, Fijian and Tongan players are easier to distinguish as being 'imported' than players like Mehrtens, doesn't make it a racial comment.

 

[FlukeArtist]

Of course it does- you just proved my point.

If its not racist then why mention it?
If you're not sure- you're just assuming by the colour of their skin that they are not "real NZrs"

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Just because Pacific Islanders are easier to distinguish, doesn't make it racist. When you judge them because of their skin color, it's racist. We're not judging, just saying it's obvious more people know that Sivivatu is Fijian than the number of people who know Mehrtens was born in South Africa

 

[Shaggy]

... As a side issue, Mehrtens isn't even a case of New Zealand "poaching" a player - he may have been born in South Africa, but he only lived there until he was one, and his father and grand father were both All Blacks.

... and yes, most off the Pacific Island talent eligible for New Zealand is made up of players born or brought up from a very young age in New Zealand, just as some of the New Zealand, and much of the Pacific Island that Australia now picks are either born there or brought up there

... my own postings are mean't to address compensation for players taken from one nation by a club in another nation ... if New Zealand takes a player that another nation has developed, then they should pay as well IMO

 

[FlukeArtist]

OK well if you're comparing the isolated case of Sivivatu v Mehrtens, then fine, I concede there.

But what about all these other players we have supposedly stolen then??

If NZ is called out as having "stealed from the PIs for so long" there has to be a racist basis to it, because they just see the brown brothers in the team and assume they aren't "real NZers"

 

[LittleGuy]

Flukeartist you have hijacked this thread completely and stop throwing the term racist around, racists are individuals that claim supierority to others based on ethnicity, I have seen none of that here.

 

[munstermuffin]

There big difference between poaching and stealling.

And you have no idea of racism if you think that was racism. Regardless of if the player is Black, White or Green for that matter it just discussing players and it happens that they have that appearance because that just happens to be the area of the world they hail from.

In soccer Ireland have been called the 'English B Team' at times and it fact because not many had ever been to Ireland and well we even managed to get a player in by lying that he had an Irish Grandmother so realistically I don't see where racism occured

 

[FlukeArtist]

I didn't hijack it Little Guy, I just responded to comments made on here.

@ munstermuffin:

My point was; nothing would even be said if those players weren't brown (and therefore in some eyes: "not real NZers")- so yes, that does come down to a perception based on colour of the skin- is essence, a racial perception.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

OK well if you're comparing the isolated case of Sivivatu v Mehrtens, then fine, I concede there.

But what about all these other players we have supposedly stolen then??

If NZ is called out as having "stealed from the PIs for so long" there has to be a racist basis to it, because they just see the brown brothers in the team and assume they aren't "real NZers"

So just because the Pacific Islanders are coloured, we are racist just for mentioning them?

GROW UP!

 

[Jockstap]

Bloody Irish, damn those handsome devils.

 

[FlukeArtist]

What I am saying Ezequial is;

If someone sees Brown people in the ABs and call NZ out as having "stolen" them; what they are essentially saying is becuase they aren't white, then they aren't real NZers.

I would say that is definitely racist.

Grow Up? Wake up mate

 

[LittleGuy]

@ munstermuffin:

My point was; nothing would even be said if those players weren't brown (and therefore in some eyes: "not real NZers")- so yes, that does come down to a perception based on colour of the skin- is essence, a racial perception.

Thats just false, every Canadian game I watch especially with English commentators for some reason they bring up the fact that James Pritchard was born in Australia, DTH Van De Merwe was born in South Africa, Nanyak Dala is from Nigeria once Ander Monro was specifically brought up as a player with "loose" ties to Canada until colour commentator Gareth Rees stepped in and made mention of the fact that he has lived here for years and was born here.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

What I am saying Ezequial is;

If someone sees Brown people in the ABs and call NZ out as having "stolen" them; what they are essentially saying is becuase they aren't white, then they aren't real NZers.

I would say that is definitely racist.

Grow Up? Wake up mate

Who is saying that New Zealand only has white people and that all coloured people must be PI's? Stop defending something that isn't attacked.

 

[FlukeArtist]

OK Little Guy- I can't comment on Canadian Rugby,

What I can comment on is the comments made re NZ "poaching Island talent" etc. THAT is what I am referring to.
These people look at the brown players and assume they aren't "real NZers" - ......read the other comments prior

Oh, BS Ezequial- two comments on this very thread mentioned it.

 

[lucky number 7]

Nobody here is a racist....except Roscommonguy ..after what he posted last night although I suspect that was a complete and utter TRFRAPE.