Irish accused of aiding All Black defections

[LittleGuy]

OK Little Guy- I can't comment on Canadian Rugby,

What I can comment on is the comments made re NZ "poaching Island talent" etc. THAT is what I am referring to.
These people look at the brown players and assume they aren't "real NZers" - ......read the other comments prior

Oh, BS Ezequial- two comments on this very thread mentioned it.

That dosen't make them racist LOL, ethnocentric at most and even that is a stretch. Just watch this video and tell me who the poached player is don't worry your not racist if you guess correctly.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

That dosen't make them racist LOL, ethnocentric at most and even that is a stretch. Just watch this video and tell me who the poached player is don't worry your not racist if you guess correctly.

His name is not Andrew Miller? Surely it can't be :lol:

 

[lucky number 7]

I hear the announcers have trouble with his name over there ...He has filed for a name change to Andrew Mirrer

 

[FlukeArtist]

Actually Little Guy- that just comes down to your perception.

I personally find it offensive to have it insinuated that someone who is brown is not a real NZer.
Does the fact that you don't make it OK?
No it doesn't.

I've said my peace anyway- you all know how to wind me up now; just make some assumptions based on race.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Actually Little Guy- that just comes down to your perception.

I personally find it offensive to have it insinuated that someone who is brown is not a real NZer.
Does the fact that you don't make it OK?
No it doesn't.

I've said my peace anyway- you all know how to wind me up now; just make some assumptions based on race.

Bloody Pākehās...

 

[lucky number 7]

I've said my peace anyway- you all know how to wind me up now; just make some assumptions based on race.

You cant dance

 

[LittleGuy]

What about assumptions based on height or weight? As a 5'5" guy I was extremely dissapointed my high school rugby coach put me in at scrum-half and fullback, I was fully expecting him to assume I was Lock material.

Human beings make assumptions and judgements about people all the time due to their physical appearance, its just become popular to stand on a soapbox and proclaim your above all others that do when it comes to skin colour and ethnicity. Your just as intolerant as most racist people you just have different targets, your attack on the poster earlier showed that where you dropped about ten curses and assumed he was automatically racist.

 

[FlukeArtist]

Ah whatever mate- you're drawing a freakin long bow there.

 

[Seaton]

I think we need to come up with a universal symbol for the 'race card'
One that can simply be revealed in an arguement to show where a certain party stands (and not geographically for the pedantics out there)
Imagine if all the Jewish people had a symbol to wave at Hitler, if all the racially oppressed people in SA could show to the governmen etc... There'd be no more racist debates/ issues, because the 'offending' party would either feel remorse or simply realize that arguing is futile.

When I see a 'brown' player playing for a NZ team (club or country), I always assume he is Moari until proven polynesian (I don't know if the term encompasses the Moari?)
Does this mean that I am racist?

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

How about this one as a symbol?

 

[nickdnz]

I think we need to come up with a universal symbol for the 'race card'
One that can simply be revealed in an arguement to show where a certain party stands (and not geographically for the pedantics out there)
Imagine if all the Jewish people had a symbol to wave at Hitler, if all the racially oppressed people in SA could show to the governmen etc... There'd be no more racist debates/ issues, because the 'offending' party would either feel remorse or simply realize that arguing is futile.

When I see a 'brown' player playing for a NZ team (club or country), I always assume he is Moari until proven polynesian (I don't know if the term encompasses the Moari?)
Does this mean that I am racist?

No, it means you have not lived in New Zealand. I think the general issue was the argument (and it winds me up too) that New Zealand poach from the Islands, and they are not New Zealanders. It was linked earlier to point out a that NZ poach talent as Ireland do. The problem being, most Polynesians in New Zealand, come here because there are a lot of job oppertunities and a large pre existing Polynesian community. As that is the case, players like Muliaina, Collins, Masoe, Rokocoko and So'oialo have lived in New Zealand almost all of their lives, before they had ever picked up a rugby ball, so the term "cherry picking" is fairly offensive, especially when referring to player like Tana Umaga, Kevin Mealamu and Rene Ranger, who were all born in New Zealand. It's a lot different than player like Waldrom, Boss, Hape, Flutey etc, who were very much cherry picked, as they immigrated purely after they had already established a professional rugby career.

The issue about singling out Ireland, I think is just due to many recent transfer offers and rumors of key All Blacks moving to Ireland. The NZRU were expecting a much smaller player exodius than in 2007, and part of that was the understanding that Ireland would not be poaching many players, after them themselves had shown concern over the French poaching key players.

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

There's been some good hard work put in to kick New Zealand back for something they aren't doing, from those who are doing it.

The general point that was being made earlier is that there should be some way to contractually secure development fees for the home union to make the poachers from any country in the world have to contribute to those they snatch away from who are just not financially powerhouses and have lost a significant investment.

As for someone earlier suggesting that US, Canadian, Japanese, Uruguayan and other players would be disadvantaged by this, that's only if their union wanted to do that for that particular player. They don't have to demand a development fee, or they could take a smaller one to undercut another unions player if they wanted. In some of those countries there's no proper professional structure, so the home union may actually get a better player back from that club/comp if they negotiate a smaller 1-3 year contract, or one that allows automatic release for internationals.

 

[markshaw]

From what I gather, Payne picked up Janes offer when he declined, Jane was due to sign in Japan but since the Tsunami has restarted talks with the club Afoa and Payne are heading to, Ulster? Payne has said he wants to travel while hes young and if he ends up playing for Ireland it's not the end of the world. I really like the Irish rugby community and find them very very respectful. Just my two cents

 

[LittleGuy]

There's been some good hard work put in to kick New Zealand back for something they aren't doing, from those who are doing it.

The general point that was being made earlier is that there should be some way to contractually secure development fees for the home union to make the poachers from any country in the world have to contribute to those they snatch away from who are just not financially powerhouses and have lost a significant investment.

As for someone earlier suggesting that US, Canadian, Japanese, Uruguayan and other players would be disadvantaged by this, that's only if their union wanted to do that for that particular player. They don't have to demand a development fee, or they could take a smaller one to undercut another unions player if they wanted. In some of those countries there's no proper professional structure, so the home union may actually get a better player back if from that club/comp if they negotiate a smaller 2-3 year contract, or one that allows automatic release for internationals.

That was me and I agree with many of your points and after some thought on this I guess it could make players from these countries seem more attractive by being cheaper than players from countries where a development fee is demanded. I'm just worried about more inter union squabbling when a country like Canada or Uruguay starts selling players on the cheap lowering the bargaining position of unions charging a higher one.

As for flukeartist I think your suffering from oxygen depravation on that soap box your up so high.

 

[FlukeArtist]

Yeah well Little Guy- I just get sick of hearing the same tired BS re polynesian New Zealanders.

You may have just walkked into it, but this has been going on for years.

 

[markshaw]

Yeah well Little Guy- I just get sick of hearing the same tired BS re polynesian New Zealanders.

You may have just walkked into it, but this has been going on for years.

I really think the majority of the forum these days has a good understanding of the issue there FlukeArtist.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

The only problem I have is with calling up players who end up only playing once or twice for the All Blacks which makes them not eligible to play for Samoa, Fiji or Tonga. However, this is also still the choice of the player.

 

[Shaggy]

The only problem I have is with calling up players who end up only playing once or twice for the All Blacks which makes them not eligible to play for Samoa, Fiji or Tonga. However, this is also still the choice of the player.

Mate, i'm not sure how it relates to the thread, but it's the same for everyone regardless of which country you choose to play for. As for making an exception for Pacific Island players, a change has already been proposed and rejected by the IRB ... New Zealand and Australia were the only ones who supported the change

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to see players represent 2 national teams. I just think the PI's have lost a fair amount of potential assets to their game who aren't regular starters for the All Blacks.

 

[FlukeArtist]

yeah I knowwhat you mean Ezequial.

I think there is def a case for having a standown and being able to represent another nation after 3 years standown.