Ireland Squad for North American Tour

[munstermuffin]

Olding could be a bolter and star of tour. Henderson should be kept at 6 as his position from now on too and forget messing around at lock

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

@psychic duck
As bg8 has mentioned, both Sheridan and McKinney are moving up to a higher level next year. I can see the reasoning behind selecting them.

Jonny Sexton is likely to go to Australia with the Lions. Ian Madigan and Paddy Jackson will tour North America. That leaves only Ian Keatley as a recognised flyhalf for the Georgia tour. JJ Hanrahan, Niall O'Connor, Gareth Steenson and James McKinney is all that's left.

At inside centre, it's likely that Gordon D'arcy will be given the summer off. Luke Marshall may follow suit. James Downey is 32 and not one for the future. Dave McSharry is injured. Stuart Olding will tour either NA or go to the JWC. Sheridan could tour be being the last man standing although I'd prefer to see JJ Hanrahan there.

 

[Peat]

After three concussions in such a short time frame, I would be very surprised if Marshall plays during the summer, and very perturbed as well.

 

[big ginger 8]

Out of boredom I will now post my current Ireland and Emerging Ireland squads.

All excluded starters are not presumed to be with the Lions some are being rested.

NA Squad

Props: Kilcoyne, Lutton, McGrath, Archer, Bent

Bit of a change from my initial frontrow. Lutton's emergence deserves recongnition given our lack of options. Jack is a concrete wall and I'm pretty sure Buckley will be injured. Bent for is apparent versatility.

Hookers: Strauss, Cronin

Unsure about this. Sherry deserves somethin but I want all three to get a start.

Secondrows: Tuohy, Toner, Stevenson

Basically same as last one. We don't have a lot of locks.

Backrows: Henderson, O'Mahony, Henry, Ruddock, O'Donnell

Pretty simple imo.

Scrumhalves: Marshall, Marmion

Simple.

Outhalves: Madigan, Jackson

Same again.

Centres: Hanrahan, Cave, McFadden

Have already said I think Olding should go u20 WC and I'll stick by it. However we're running out of centres so you never know.

Backthree: Gilroy, Henshaw, D. Kearney, O'Hallorn

Looks like I'm contradicting myself with Henshaw but we have even less 15's than 12's this way the centres named get gametime as well and JWC is probably higher standard than the Emerging tour will be.

26 man squad will probably have more in reality. Henry to captain. Would be interesting to see and if it clicked an exciting team.




Emerging Squad:

Props: Loughney, Hagan, Wilkinson, Fitzpatrick, Black, Moore

Not many options. Whats this for if not to experiment.

Hookers: Sherry, Varley, Herring

Decent options.

Secondrows: Kearney, Nagle, McLaughlin

I actually cannot think of anyone else who realistically go. EDIT: **** it bring McLaughlin here

Backrows: Ryan, Butler, Wilson, Diack

Not bad at all considering.

Scrumhalves: Cooney, Heaney

Both could be good.

Outhalves: Keatley, McKinney

Talent enough here.

Centres: Sheridan, Griffin, Reid

Unusually for us that's two properly big centres. Reid could be a decent centre also currently can't think of anyone else.

Backthree: Conway, O'Dea, Jones, Carr

Plenty of pace anyway.

Sherry to captain. Tried as much as possible to go for the pwople who could develop over the at the moment better player but will never be anything amazing.

 

[munstermuffin]

BG8 think Sherry will be in main squad. Has best darts by a mile of all Irish hookers and is just as effective as others around field and I think now we will really start to see the effects of Cronin not been first choice for Leinster as Munster have an option and Strauss is better than Cronin also.
JJ won't be with main squad as he's not ready and while I know they aren't young I think Coughlan and Downey deserve a cap. Donnacha Ryan will probably go on main tour too and Heaslip if not selected for Lions which is possibility
Also for emerging team Dineen is a possibility

 

[big ginger 8]

BG8 think Sherry will be in main squad. Has best darts by a mile of all Irish hookers and is just as effective as others around field and I think now we will really start to see the effects of Cronin not been first choice for Leinster as Munster have an option and Strauss is better than Cronin also.
JJ won't be with main squad as he's not ready and while I know they aren't young I think Coughlan and Downey deserve a cap. Donnacha Ryan will probably go on main tour too and Heaslip if not selected for Lions which is possibility
Also for emerging team Dineen is a possibility

Don't think Sherry has the best darts in Ireland by a mile it's a lot closer than that. I think Sherry is far too underpowered for international rugby and Cronin has started a lot of games this year.

Hanrahn is someone with the potnetial to be worldclass Downey...doesn't. I don't think there's any real decent argument for Downey. There's no point bringing him he'd probably never be capped after the tour and it's not as if he's on the back of a great season.

There's a better argument for Coughlan but as I've said before I think the main focus of this tour should be development. Coughlan's 32 he's a great player for Munster but I think it's highly unlikely he'd have much involvement with Ireland after. That said I wouldn't mind if he went.

Don't really see the point in bringing Ryan we've nothing to learn about him and I think he needs a rest. The likelihood of Heaslip not going on the Lions is really very slim at this stage if he wasn't again he deserves a rest. He hasn't has a decent break since emerging about 6 years ago.

Forot about Dineen yeah stick him on the plane to Georgia.

 

[munstermuffin]

Agree regards Downey not improving but again I don't want to see caps handed out needlessly and I really think Sherrys darts are best. Cronin has started alot yes but this season had Strauss been fit all year round I think Cronin would've been seen alot less and it no secret he was considering move out of Leinster to Munster earlier in season. I think he fancied getting ahead of Sherry but that won't happen here and he's in limbo a bit. All 3 provinces have international class 2's in my eyes. While I agree Sherry not strongest yet he's still developing and getting stronger. Add in this by 2 journalists 12 months ago. "Tommy O'Donnell will struggle to have physique or skills for top Rabo games"and look how 12 months later he's been.
Just a thought though as I say I think Cronin has stopped improving and just is being overtaken by other 3 and his darts are nowhere near good enough

 

[big ginger 8]

Agree regards Downey not improving but again I don't want to see caps handed out needlessly and I really think Sherrys darts are best. Cronin has started alot yes but this season had Strauss been fit all year round I think Cronin would've been seen alot less and it no secret he was considering move out of Leinster to Munster earlier in season. I think he fancied getting ahead of Sherry but that won't happen here and he's in limbo a bit. All 3 provinces have international class 2's in my eyes. While I agree Sherry not strongest yet he's still developing and getting stronger. Add in this by 2 journalists 12 months ago. "Tommy O'Donnell will struggle to have physique or skills for top Rabo games"and look how 12 months later he's been.
Just a thought though as I say I think Cronin has stopped improving and just is being overtaken by other 3 and his darts are nowhere near good enough

:lol:

Cronin's throwing has improved hugely. He's at a perfectly acceptable level with that. I don't think he's stopped improving just the improvments he needs aren't as obvious. Hugely underrated player IMO.

12 months ago O'Donnell was clearly strong enough do you have a link to these journalists comments. Him improving his strength doesn't mean Sherry will as well.

Wouldn't capping Downey be at least equally needless?

 

[Feicarsinn]

Agree regards Downey not improving but again I don't want to see caps handed out needlessly and I really think Sherrys darts are best. Cronin has started alot yes but this season had Strauss been fit all year round I think Cronin would've been seen alot less and it no secret he was considering move out of Leinster to Munster earlier in season. I think he fancied getting ahead of Sherry but that won't happen here and he's in limbo a bit. All 3 provinces have international class 2's in my eyes. While I agree Sherry not strongest yet he's still developing and getting stronger. Add in this by 2 journalists 12 months ago. "Tommy O'Donnell will struggle to have physique or skills for top Rabo games"and look how 12 months later he's been.
Just a thought though as I say I think Cronin has stopped improving and just is being overtaken by other 3 and his darts are nowhere near good enough

Well then this idea of 'he deserves a cap' doesn't really fit in with that to be honest. As far as I'm concerned it doesn't matter if player x gets a cap and player y doesn't, you should just pick what's going to be most beneficial for the national team for this tour and in the long run. I don't see Downey offering enough in the immediacy to outweigh the amount a player like Eoin Griffin could benefit from being part of the tour. Therefore, sod who deserves the cap and pick who could do a job for Ireland come the next 6 nations.


In any case, Aaron Dundon has the best darts in the country

 

[munstermuffin]

No but of all options available Feic Downey is best available for the now I'd Olding Marshall and D'Arcy are out. As I say it just an opinion and I think Downeys recent form deserves a cap.

 

[Peat]

Sometimes it's not about who deserves a cap, it's about what the team deserves. Downey takes international experience from a man man who might actually use it, when he himself never should, and that seems a crap idea. You'd be better off having one of Jackson, Madigan or Keatley there.

I'm with MM on Sherry though, who I rate highly, and while I don't watch much of Leinster I haven't seen the improvement in Cronin's darts either.

 

[munstermuffin]

Just out of curiosity Peat what age is Lutton and what story with McAllister regarding injury

 

[Conal]

Just out of curiosity Peat what age is Lutton and what story with McAllister regarding injury

lutton was an academty player didn't get pro contract played club went to New Zealand for a few years came back played for belfast harlequins? and has made quite an impact

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Lutton looked okay again against Connacht. From being nowhere a couple of months ago, he's played himself into the Georgia squad. I suspect he won't go to North America.

 

[munstermuffin]

I'd have Lutton ahead of Bent and in my opinion on BG8 logic if an untested Rabo player like JJ should go ahead of Downey then maybe Lutton and Archer should be ahead of Bent as Bent hasn't earned his spot.
Also BG8 no mention of Court or Trimble. Are you writing them off

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I'd have Lutton ahead of Bent and in my opinion on BG8 logic if an untested Rabo player like JJ should go ahead of Downey then maybe Lutton and Archer should be ahead of Bent as Bent hasn't earned his spot.
Also BG8 no mention of Court or Trimble. Are you writing them off

Lutton and Bent are the same age so it would hardly be a youth movement picking the nordie ahead of the Kiwi.

I'd pick both Lutton and Bent for Georgia. I'd also send Hanrahan there. Olding is the young inside centre I'd select to go to North America instead of the JWC.

Downey could go to North America but I'd prefer to pick someone who'll help Ireland longer term.

 

[big ginger 8]

I'd have Lutton ahead of Bent and in my opinion on BG8 logic if an untested Rabo player like JJ should go ahead of Downey then maybe Lutton and Archer should be ahead of Bent as Bent hasn't earned his spot.
Also BG8 no mention of Court or Trimble. Are you writing them off

Lutton's 26 and I had Lutton and Archer in my squad.

No not writing them off just as I've said with others we'll learn nothing new from them and they deserve a rest. Also lets us examine others we don't know a much about.

 

[munstermuffin]

Snoop I'd agree Olding is good enough for North America but he may benefit from U20s against good sides which would be better in some aspects than Canada and USA. And as I said yes I'm all in favour of lads who can help Ireland long term but just conscious of things like for example Bent was going to sort out prop situation when he arrived, played a cameo for Ireland and did ok, now he is barely at Rabo level. Maybe it tiredness and next season will be better but I'd like players to earn it first through Rabo or HEC. Potential isn't always right as I said previously TOD was told 12 months ago he'd barely hack it in mediocre Rabo games. Players like Olding have stepped up and I'd bring him to North America only I'd rate JRWC higher. And yes JJ has potential to be world class but until he proves it then let them show it in Georgia where the test will be just as good.

 

[big ginger 8]

Emery is as good if not better than any centre Olding would face in NA.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Emery is as good if not better than any centre Olding would face in NA.

Playing next to Madigan, Zebo and others will be better for his development than playing opposite Emery in my opinion. I see your point but always think representing your country at the highest level trumps playing in a JWC. The knock on effect to his confidence is a benefit too.