Ireland Squad for North American Tour

[munstermuffin]

Olding has lovely footwork though that could really be utilised from 10. I think he has more "want" in him than Jackson and is a bit more confident and assured.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Jackson is by the numbers and lacks flair. That's not a kneejerk reaction from me since I've been saying it for the last year or more. Olding has flair in abundance. Ulster have a tough call to make. Seeing as they're backing Jackson and bringing James McKinney home, I suspect they see Olding's future elsewhere. If it were my call, I think Olding has more talent.

On Chris Farrell, yep, all things point to him having a future with Ulster. To borrow a term from American Football, he seems like a "change of pace back". Let Olding and Marshall cut teams open and Farrell bludgeon his way through and deliver offloads late in games. I think Farrell's time is a few years off though as Darren Cave has a lot to offer. Any news on Paddy Wallace and is he considering retirement?

I agree Court isn't a frontline tighthead but I abhor handing out cheap caps. Mike Bent isn't good enough. Ronan Loughney isn't good enough. John Andress isn't good enough. Jamie Hagan may be good enough but he hasn't shown it consistently. Martin Moore isn't established at club level yet. Declan Fitzpatrick is a sicknote who can't be relied upon. I suspect he'll travel in the summer and spell for Stephen Archer who also isn't good enough but he's the man in possession. When Fitzpatrick gets injured again, Court will be forced to plug a gap.

 

[munstermuffin]

But snoop I don't think anyone who gets capped in a summer tour of US is ever considered international as in yea it cheap cap but its same as having 0 caps as these tours are known to only occur when nobody available. Keatley got capped in 2009 and nobody says he is an international.

 

[big ginger 8]

Snoopy alluded to it in one post but "Emerging Ireland" playing three matches.

http://www.irb.com/newsmedia/mediaz...066239.html#georgia+host+irb+tbilisi+cup+june

 

[Peat]

Jackson is by the numbers and lacks flair. That's not a kneejerk reaction from me since I've been saying it for the last year or more. Olding has flair in abundance. Ulster have a tough call to make. Seeing as they're backing Jackson and bringing James McKinney home, I suspect they see Olding's future elsewhere. If it were my call, I think Olding has more talent.

On Chris Farrell, yep, all things point to him having a future with Ulster. To borrow a term from American Football, he seems like a "change of pace back". Let Olding and Marshall cut teams open and Farrell bludgeon his way through and deliver offloads late in games. I think Farrell's time is a few years off though as Darren Cave has a lot to offer. Any news on Paddy Wallace and is he considering retirement?

I agree Court isn't a frontline tighthead but I abhor handing out cheap caps. Mike Bent isn't good enough. Ronan Loughney isn't good enough. John Andress isn't good enough. Jamie Hagan may be good enough but he hasn't shown it consistently. Martin Moore isn't established at club level yet. Declan Fitzpatrick is a sicknote who can't be relied upon. I suspect he'll travel in the summer and spell for Stephen Archer who also isn't good enough but he's the man in possession. When Fitzpatrick gets injured again, Court will be forced to plug a gap.

Caps at tighthead - on a North American tour no less - feel just as cheap for Court as for anyone else. If there's no deserving candidate, look to the future. That's how I see it. Who cares if they're not established, to look at Moore's name? If your established choices are crap, look beyond.

I believe Farrell will be a starter - Olding and Marshall possibly too similar - although as you mention, forcing Cave out might be difficult. Will be interesting to see if McCloskey of Dungannon gets a contract for next year. As for Mincer, he's signed on for another year, get the feeling he'll be experienced squad cover.

There's also chat on the UAFC today about Payne being played more at centre next season. As things stand, that would cause me no insignificant amount of rage, although I can see the long term argument.

 

[psychic duck]

Snoopy alluded to it in one post but "Emerging Ireland" playing three matches.

http://www.irb.com/newsmedia/mediaz...066239.html#georgia+host+irb+tbilisi+cup+june

Will be an "Emerging Georgia" team as well, not officially, but it will be.

That tournament would be probably a better test of Ireland's prop depth than the North American tour. I have a feeling that a player like Archer or Loughney could fool people into thinking they are future international props by shunting around the likes of Doug Wooldridge, Mike Pletch and Jason Marshall about this June. After all Wales sent John Yapp out there as tighthead in 2009 and he had the upperhand at scrums. If Ireland can't dominate up front then it should be considered a failure in that area.

A tournament with a South African side and Georgia and Uruguay (although neither team will likely have much success in getting their French players available), would be a tougher scrummaging test than North American sides. No idea what "South Africa President's XV" is by the way, but I'd expect they will win.

 

[big ginger 8]

Will be an "Emerging Georgia" team as well, not officially, but it will be.

That tournament would be probably a better test of Ireland's prop depth than the North American tour. I have a feeling that a player like Archer or Loughney could fool people into thinking they are future international props by shunting around the likes of Doug Wooldridge, Mike Pletch and Jason Marshall about this June. After all Wales sent John Yapp out there as tighthead in 2009 and he had the upperhand at scrums. If Ireland can't dominate up front then it should be considered a failure in that area.

A tournament with a South African side and Georgia and Uruguay (although neither team will likely have much success in getting their French players available), would be a tougher scrummaging test than North American sides. No idea what "South Africa President's XV" is by the way, but I'd expect they will win.

I would expect so don't think anyone will put too much value on the American tour. It depends if we rest frontline players in terms of who'll go to Georgia. The ones further down the pecking oreder are probably better scrummager but ver inexperienced.

 

[Feicarsinn]

I'd pick Martin Moore. Sure, he isn't established at club level, but he's got the potential to be far better than Archer, Bent, Hagan, Fitzpatrick, etc. Why bother waiting to bring him in when these games are essentially meaningless anyway?

 

[psychic duck]

Jackson is by the numbers and lacks flair. That's not a kneejerk reaction from me since I've been saying it for the last year or more. Olding has flair in abundance. Ulster have a tough call to make. Seeing as they're backing Jackson and bringing James McKinney home, I suspect they see Olding's future elsewhere. If it were my call, I think Olding has more talent.

On Chris Farrell, yep, all things point to him having a future with Ulster. To borrow a term from American Football, he seems like a "change of pace back". Let Olding and Marshall cut teams open and Farrell bludgeon his way through and deliver offloads late in games. I think Farrell's time is a few years off though as Darren Cave has a lot to offer. Any news on Paddy Wallace and is he considering retirement?

I agree Court isn't a frontline tighthead but I abhor handing out cheap caps. Mike Bent isn't good enough. Ronan Loughney isn't good enough. John Andress isn't good enough. Jamie Hagan may be good enough but he hasn't shown it consistently. Martin Moore isn't established at club level yet. Declan Fitzpatrick is a sicknote who can't be relied upon. I suspect he'll travel in the summer and spell for Stephen Archer who also isn't good enough but he's the man in possession. When Fitzpatrick gets injured again, Court will be forced to plug a gap.

Already come to that conclusion have you?

I still think it was poor from Kidney that he fast tracked him into the side in November giving him easy caps that he hadn't earned through performances with Leinster. And now it seems when he actually went back to Leinster, he has hardly impressed that much anyway and Fitzpatrick and Archer were ahead in the 6N.

 

[munstermuffin]

I see we sending A squad to some tournament too. Good idea

 

[big ginger 8]

Lions, North America, Emerging Ireland and JWC will really stretch us.

 

[munstermuffin]

Good for players in between JJ Hanrahan example is in my head. I presume this will also mean a small squad going to North America. Only 2 of Keatley/Jackson/Madigan. Only 2 9's etc and players will basically be flown over if cover needed

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

@psychic duck
Bent has had plenty of chances. Factoring in full Ireland caps, the Wolfhounds, Leinster and the Leinster Amlin Cup team, he's played 16 times now. In that period he's looked good on maybe 4 occasions. His full Ireland caps account for 2 of those games. While he's decent around the park, his scrummaging leaves a lot to be desired. We don't want another Tony Buckley.

On Moore, he's played 5 times for Leinster, all from the bench. He hasn't appeared for the 1st team since November. It's crazy to think he should be called up to the North America tour. A trip to Georgia is the best he can hope for and even that's unlikely.

 

[Peat]

16 caps after coming up here on the back of a full NZ season isn't exactly something I'd be judging someone on. Wouldn't surprise me if he turned the corner - really wouldn't surprise me if he didn't!

And you've got a crazy problem at tighthead. All other call-ups would be crazy. So possibly Moore is the least insane of the lot.

 

[irelandfan123]

anyone reckon Stringer will get his 100th cap on tour I mean he is playing out of his skin and murray possibly a lion and reddan injured he must be up there with boss

 

[Peat]

Shame they're concurrent really; last time Ireland were in this position, a lot of players played both the North America tour and the Wolfhounds matches. Bearing this in mind...

NA squad

Kilcoyne, Court, Bent, Andress
Strauss, Sherry
McCarthy, Tuohy, Toner
Henderson, O'Mahony, Henry, O'Donnell

Marshall, Marmion
Jackson, Madigan
McSharry, Cave, McFadden
Trimble, Gilroy, Zebo

With a Georgia squad of...

Buckley, McGrath, Moore, Archer, Lutton
Herring, Cronin, Varley
O'Callaghan, M. Kearney, Stevenson (I hope Kearney's a jumper lock...)
Diack, McKeon, Faloon, Ryan, DOCv2

McGrath, Heaney, Stringer
Keatley, McKinney
Hanrahan, Griffin
O'Dea, Allen, O'Halloran, D. Kearney

That's fairly unrealistic, no way will Ireland rest that many of the front liners, although it'd be bloody sensible of them to do so; I also think Olding and Henshaw will benefit more from playing the Baby Blacks than from the other potential opponents. Having thought about it, it makes more sense to send the hopeful young props to be mashed around in Georgia, they'll face bigger challenges there.

Any of Henderson, O'Mahony or Henry could play 8 in the NA Squad, ranked in order of my preference. If I were the IRFU, I'd be pushing Zebo at full-back really hard, as it would give Kearney some real competition for the first time since... uhm... well, yeah. Same reason I think one of the young bucks should have a crack at 8, Heaslip's too assured of a role there.

And I know the selection of Diack won't be popular but a) he can double-job as a lock b) The Irish management are going to use him in some respect this summer.

 

[big ginger 8]

Forgot about Morris how'd people fell about him going?

 

[Peat]

I wouldn't/can't see it happen. There's about 10 useful wingers in Ireland with genuine international aspirations. Morris is playing well enough, but nothing special, and nothing to make you think he'll force his way in as an undroppable player, and really if you're looking at England nothing to see he should go ahead of Monahan.

 

[big ginger 8]

I wouldn't/can't see it happen. There's about 10 useful wingers in Ireland with genuine international aspirations. Morris is playing well enough, but nothing special, and nothing to make you think he'll force his way in as an undroppable player, and really if you're looking at England nothing to see he should go ahead of Monahan.

Really haven't seen heard much about Monahan. In the match against Northampton Morris looked quality. I'd probably take him at least in the team going to Georgia.

 

[Peat]

Really haven't seen heard much about Monahan. In the match against Northampton Morris looked quality. I'd probably take him at least in the team going to Georgia.

Monahan's been good for Glaws, not stand out but useful looking, and he offers something different to Ireland in that he'd be the biggest Irish winger. I don't think either has more potential than the likes of O'Halloran, O'Dea or Allen though.